Waratahs 2012

[cyclopath]

You're seriously comparing Larkham to Barnes?

I don't think he is comparing them as players. Neither has credentials as a coach, which is more the point. Good player=good coach...not necessarily.

 

[waratahjesus]

Www.dailytelegraph.com/sport

Telly claiming tahs are close to signing Sarel pretorious from the cheetahs to replace burgo at halfback.
Havn't watched a lot of the cheetahs this year so is there a south African in the house who can give an opinion.

Has to be a better import signing than anesi

 

[qwerty51]

That's a bloody good signing if true. Fuck I'm excited. He has a brilliant running game and has very quick service. Could be just what we need.

He was probably the halfback of the season.

 

[waratahjesus]

Article says he was the second worst defender in the comp though, so each way bet it would seem

 

[qwerty51]

Hmm didn't notice that. I gotta feel for the Cheetahs, they produce so much talent but can't hold onto them. No money I think.

 

[fatprop]

Article says he was the second worst defender in the comp though, so each way bet it would seem

we were after the worst defender (Phipps) so 2nd worst isn't too bad

 

[Bruce Ross]

I have made this point before but I will persist.

If Waratahs management are interested in developing a loyal, committed following they should immediately implement and stick to a policy of only contracting players who have come through the Sydney or NSW Country club systems. Bringing in journeymen from overseas necessarily reduces the pool of players that local rugby fans can identify with. It is almost as stupid as the previous policy of buying in Leaguies in the expectation that followers of that code would come across in droves to fill the SFS.

The rugby nurseries in our state produce more than enough quality players to fill the Waratahs' roster with enough left over to largely staff other Australian franchises.

In the short term adopting such a policy would require courage but the potential long term benefits would certainly justify it.

 

[waratahjesus]

I know what your saying Bruce, I can see it both ways.

You can't argue that tuqiri and sailor didn't draw crowds and create extra media interest, nor can you say that they and Rodgers didn't contribute to on field success in some way.

The main problem the tahs have going forward for mine is, they have a pack capable of winning the comp, they have a back line that has individuals capable of it but has never really jelled. So do you cut your losses and take a rebuilding year or two now, or do you recruit like mad and try to strike while the iron is hot.

It's a hard call, for mine I think to not take advantage of the pack we have would be criminal. So if we have a foreign player capable of creating that link between forwards and backs and get something better out of the team so be it.

I would love the team to be full of locals, but is that going to sell tickets to the general public?

 

[Cutter]

I have made this point before but I will persist.

If Waratahs management are interested in developing a loyal, committed following they should immediately implement and stick to a policy of only contracting players who have come through the Sydney or NSW Country club systems. Bringing in journeymen from overseas necessarily reduces the pool of players that local rugby fans can identify with. It is almost as stupid as the previous policy of buying in Leaguies in the expectation that followers of that code would come across in droves to fill the SFS.

The rugby nurseries in our state produce more than enough quality players to fill the Waratahs' roster with enough left over to largely staff other Australian franchises.

In the short term adopting such a policy would require courage but the potential long term benefits would certainly justify it.

Bruce I couldn't agree more. This typifies the "buy now, pay later" mindset which ought to be resisted at all costs.

 

[SuperGrover]

The rugby nurseries in our state produce more than enough quality players to fill the Waratahs' roster with enough left over to largely staff other Australian franchises.

If this is true (and I'm not suggesting it either is or isn't), then why are we having this conversation at all? who are these quality players to fill the roster?

 

[SuperGrover]

For example,

The semifinal just gone, seemed to highlight Josh Holmes deficiencies at this level, the man on the bench (IMO the better player) is from Qld, and no one seems to know where the next great (or even serviceable) 9 is coming from, especially if we restrict ourselves to just NSW. Roos? Brednehan?..

 

[fatprop]

It appears the underlying problem is that they don't rate McKibbon enough to rely on him.

 

[barbarian]

I have to say I disagree with Bruce and Cutter. To think that you could fill the SFS with a team of just 'our boys' is a little bit of an outdated and slightly naieve attitude. You badmouth the signing of League players, but it is no coincidence that when Sailor, Tuqiri and Rogers were playing there was a huge interest in the game that there just isn't anymore. As I wrote in a blog piece a while ago, League converts and foregin marquee players have that unknown quality about them, and that draws in fans and attracts media interest.

Obviously I am not pro signing just any old Leaguie or foreigner. I think Anesi wasn't a good use of the marquee spot. But I am pro Sarel Pretorius, he is an up-and-coming star in a position we are lacking. If we get him at the right price I would love to see him in blue.

 

[high tower]

Barbarian,
replacing one of the best defensive 9's going round with the worst in the super 15, and using an import spot with another player who would be lucky to get an extra spectator through the gate, there has to be a better way.
We have lost our best attacking player and the heart of the team, next year has to be a rebuilding year(to think otherwise is pretty optimistic).
The rebuild should start @ home.


Non contracted halves playing in Sydney

Shute sheild halfbacks of note
Matt Schwager, Chris Cottee, Grayson Hart, Jeremy Su’a, Steve Evans, Dewet Roos

Young half backs of note playing 2nd grade consistently and probably would be in firsts @ weaker clubs(clubs without strong no. 9's)
Jack Rowntree, Tim Duchesne

Dont think any of the above are ready to start in super 15's.
Some could fill a bench spot.

The young guys would be better for a year in the academy, and playing some regular shute sheild games.

 

[Jets]

Why is that. He was the best player in Brisbane in 2009 and Sydney in 2010. I would think that giving him a run would be a good way to go. I would be happy for him to come back to QLD as he would be on the bench to cover Genia. Also he would provide the Tah's with a reliable goal kicker.

I agree with Bruce that teams should look local first. I builds a bit more passion in the team rather than interest in a franchise.

 

[Jets]

I have to say I disagree with Bruce and Cutter. To think that you could fill the SFS with a team of just 'our boys' is a little bit of an outdated and slightly naieve attitude. You badmouth the signing of League players, but it is no coincidence that when Sailor, Tuqiri and Rogers were playing there was a huge interest in the game that there just isn't anymore. As I wrote in a blog piece a while ago, League converts and foregin marquee players have that unknown quality about them, and that draws in fans and attracts media interest.

Obviously I am not pro signing just any old Leaguie or foreigner. I think Anesi wasn't a good use of the marquee spot. But I am pro Sarel Pretorius, he is an up-and-coming star in a position we are lacking. If we get him at the right price I would love to see him in blue.

Yet in Brisbane the Reds have no ex leaguie of foreign player (Claeb Ralph not counted) and the Reds are attracting the biggest crowds ever. I think that this is proof that it could work well in Sydney. It gives the community a much closer connection to the team.

 

[waratahjesus]

Yet in Brisbane the Reds have no ex leaguie of foreign player (Claeb Ralph not counted) and the Reds are attracting the biggest crowds ever. I think that this is proof that it could work well in Sydney. It gives the community a much closer connection to the team.

its an exception though, if quade or genia go, suddenly qld come back to the pack a fair bit.
and saying locals only for the tahs, doesnt mean no foreign or leaguies, but only nsw players. its a professional time and getting the best team available on the paddock should be the priority above local talent.

the main problem for the tahs in nsw is exposure, its why the leauge experiment was succesful cos it got people talking. i doubt if you bought in a local number 9 suddenly the gates would flow, more so the greater public would be saying who?

do i know who sarel is, not really, but the telly has an article on him in the sports section during the tahs off season. would they have that if mckibbin had been given an upgraded contract for next year?

 

[barbarian]

Yet in Brisbane the Reds have no ex leaguie of foreign player (Claeb Ralph not counted) and the Reds are attracting the biggest crowds ever. I think that this is proof that it could work well in Sydney. It gives the community a much closer connection to the team.

There are plenty of ways to get people in the gate, the Reds are winning and playing a great style of rugby. And they do have Mike Harris, who generated some interest at the start of the season coming out of the NPC. I don't think the current success of the Reds is proof of a closer 'community connection' to the team, just that people like to watch a winning side playing great footy. I wager that they could have 10 kiwis in there and still get the same crowds if they played like the have this year.

And high tower you conveniently gloss over the fact that Sarel Pretorius was one of the season's top tryscorers, and was right up there for linebreaks and try assists. His defence will improve as he is still a young player, like Phipps. As WJ says Sarel may not get 1000s through the gates, but he will certainly provide more interest than any of the names you listed there.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Yet in Brisbane the Reds have no ex leaguie of foreign player (Claeb Ralph not counted) and the Reds are attracting the biggest crowds ever. I think that this is proof that it could work well in Sydney. It gives the community a much closer connection to the team.

respectfully, I dont think the crowds are at games because of the community spirit of nurturing local talent, they are there because their team is killing it in the comp.

I agree that you need exciting players, as well as players who can create a win, in order to draw crowds, but is buying an up and coming south african the way to go here? He is good, but not great, and no one outside of the rugby inner sanctum will have even heard his name. I'd prefer we poach/draft a talented young player who we can build up, and not have to get rid of in 2 years time.

 

[Ruggo]

You're seriously comparing Larkham to Barnes?

After the 2007 RWC I was though taking the difference in experience into consideration. Very gifted and methodical in how he played. These days Barnes has become a very poor mans Johnny Wilkinson and it is a waste. His level of execution has fallen below par to be honest and it does not reflect his intelligence as a footballer. He fails to inspire me any more which is sad. Barnes is a much better talent than what he has become.