Waratahs 2012

[Slim 293]

I don't think he is comparing them as players. Neither has credentials as a coach, which is more the point. Good player=good coach...not necessarily.

It is true that Larkham has yet to prove himself as a coach, and might never make it in that role...

But when talking about the possibility of Barnes coaching and saying "Well if Larkham can do it..."

It's not like we're referencing some average test flyhalf here...

We're talking about one of the greatest players to ever play the game... an attacking genius with a wealth of experience and achievements...

Compared to that... what credentials does Barnes have? What would he offer in such a role?

Barnes is still fairly young and does not have a lot of experience in the game...

 

[Richo]

After the 2007 RWC I was though taking the difference in experience into consideration. Very gifted and methodical in how he played. These days Barnes has become a very poor mans Johnny Wilkinson and it is a waste. His level of execution has fallen below par to be honest and it does not reflect his intelligence as a footballer. He fails to inspire me any more which is sad. Barnes is a much better talent than what he has become.

Any theories on why that is? It seems like moving from the Reds was disastrous for him but has actually been great for the Reds because it gave Quade a go. He was fantastic in the Shute last year -- all those skills on display. Aside from the head knocks, why hasn't he gotten it together in blue?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

poor service?

 

[DPK]

Could be a number of things. Perhaps he's carrying persistent minor injuries (apart from his cranial issues). Maybe he's not reacting well to the pressure he's under, or maybe the training regime doesn't fit.

Lot's of theories but we'd need to get him on the podcast to get a definitive answer that isn't just a suggestion.

 

[Richo]

My theory is that Barnes is a victim of poor skills coaching at the Waratahs. But I have nothing to back that up other than a) his decline and b) the generally poor skills at the Waratahs.

 

[Jets]

My point was not that the crowds come because the Reds don't have leaguies or a foreign player. It is only because they are playing winning rugby. I believe that there is a big difference between a State team and a franchise. I believe that the Tah's and Reds work best when they are run as State teams and this means a majority of players will come through the ranks of club/school rugby.

McKibbon may not bring in huge crowds for his first game starting for the Tah's but Genia didn't either. If he plays as well as I think he can he will bring in a lot for his 20th start and every game after that.

On another point could anyone see Hickey doing a Rick Stone and staying on in another role at the Tah's or should he just be shown the door? (trying to go back to talking about the Tah's on a Tah's thread)

 

[waratahjesus]

My theory is that Barnes is a victim of poor skills coaching at the Waratahs. But I have nothing to back that up other than a) his decline and b) the generally poor skills at the Waratahs.

I don't think he has declined, I think the tahs back line has chopped and changed. Whoever the tahs have the same back line for two or three games the skills go up and the team plays better, they just never seem to be able to hold it together for very long.

As someone pointed out before as well, I think he is a better 12 than 10, when the tahs pick him at ten he often is the only kicker in the back line and the pressure sure shows,

 

[Richo]

I don't think he has declined, I think the tahs back line has chopped and changed. Whoever the tahs have the same back line for two or three games the skills go up and the team plays better, they just never seem to be able to hold it together for very long.

As someone pointed out before as well, I think he is a better 12 than 10, when the tahs pick him at ten he often is the only kicker in the back line and the pressure sure shows,

That someone was me. I think you're right that continuity of combinations matter, but that doesn't really explain sloppy passing or kicking, IMO.

 

[tigerland12]

My point was not that the crowds come because the Reds don't have leaguies or a foreign player. It is only because they are playing winning rugby. I believe that there is a big difference between a State team and a franchise. I believe that the Tah's and Reds work best when they are run as State teams and this means a majority of players will come through the ranks of club/school rugby.

Very good point, if you look at the Reds currently, most of the side has come through the system (unfourtunatly we didnt get our shit together untill we'd lost Pocock and O'Connor haha). But Sarel Pretorius would be a great signing, he isn't a massive big name player put has had a great year and would add so much to the Tahs backline. Personally I'd love to see him play here, great to watch this year

 

[Ruggo]

Any theories on why that is? It seems like moving from the Reds was disastrous for him but has actually been great for the Reds because it gave Quade a go. He was fantastic in the Shute last year -- all those skills on display. Aside from the head knocks, why hasn't he gotten it together in blue?

I don't know but it may even have something to do with his time in the Deans Wallaby era? I think Barnes thrived on the responsibility at the Reds but I understand why he did move. I also think he is the type of player that will follow a game plan without deviation. Maybe he is the victim of poor coaching. I am a critic of his execution but who knows how long the issue of his head problems has been lingering. Maybe that plays a big part.

I was a bit suprised he initiated the second year option rather than heading to Melbourne. Maqueen could have moulded Barnes in the Larkham mould which would of suited him. With respect, the Tahs seem to have trouble stepping out of their comfort zone and I have know idea as to weather this has impacted on Barnes's game.

 

[DPK]

Barnes had a cracker of a game at ten against the Chiefs last year, and that was a game with the full strength backline. I think when the Tahs can field a fully fit backline he should play ten, but if it's a weakened attack, I think he goes into his shell.

 

[Hawko]

Barbarian,
replacing one of the best defensive 9's going round with the worst in the super 15, and using an import spot with another player who would be lucky to get an extra spectator through the gate, there has to be a better way.
Non contracted halves playing in Sydney. Shute sheild halfbacks of note: Matt Schwager, Chris Cottee, Grayson Hart, Jeremy Su’a, Steve Evans, Dewet Roos Young half backs of note playing 2nd grade consistently and probably would be in firsts @ weaker clubs(clubs without strong no. 9's): Jack Rowntree, Tim Duchesne The young guys would be better for a year in the academy, and playing some regular shute sheild games.

Nitpicking I know, but the worst defensive halfback in the comp is Phipps, not Pretorius. He's many people's pick as the reserve halfback for the WC (not mine). If people think Phipps should be back-up Wallaby halfback then its hard to see how Pretorius, who is a better defender, wouldn't make the grade for the Tahs.

But bringing in Pretorius would virtually end McKibbens Waratah career before it started. McKibbens strengths are a good quick pass and the ability to box kick and place kick. All three are Burgess weaknesses. How he is defensively and for sniping from the base is not known at Super level. I have railed all year at Hickey's refusal to properly rotate his squad. McKibben saw 74 minutes of football off the bench this year, I don't think he ever got more than 15 minutes in a match. He was a star performer in Brisbane and Sydney club competitions yet was not given one decent chance to prove himself at this level. Instead, when Burgess was injured, Holmes was chosen in his place after 13 minutes game time all season, none at halfback. Now Burgess and Holmes are off overseas and no one has any idea whether McKibben could make the next step up or not. McKibben needs to talk to the Brumbies immediately. They have only Nick White on contract and so there is clearly an opening there. The Tahs do not want him, for whatever reason.

To understand the depth of this stupidity, just ask yourself the question "Who will be the Tahs place kicker next year?". Barnes? May never play again. Even if he does his effectiveness and range are poor. Hangers? Back-up player only with similar kicking problems to Barnes. Turner? Hasn't even been his club's first choice kicker. Who else? There's no one. None of the other front line backs kick for goal. Maybe Cips is leaving Melbourne to come to Sydney, having gone through all the available talent down there.

Schwager, Cottee, Hart and Roos all have their supporters, but I find it difficult to believe any of them could step into the back-up role without a year in the squad first, though I seem to remember Hart has had some bench experience with the Blues.

Squad development: This is at least 30% of the head coach's total job specification and at the end of the 2011 season we have no plan at all for a key position and are madly scrambling to get an import. Exactly what we did with Anesi and Cross. Move one position out and you see the same quandary. First choice may never play again. Second choice clearly is only a back-up, though a good and reliable one. Next choice Bernard Foley. Great potential but has less than 15 minutes on the Super park. So if we go to Hickey's usual strategy we will grab another poor performing import like Anesi with the excuse that there is no one else.

The Board has a job to do and I am mystified at reports today that say it will take several months to do the bleeding obvious.

 

[Jets]

I hear Donald is looking to leave the Chiefs maybe the Tah's could pick him up? :fishing

 

[chasmac]

Does anyone know when next year's coach will be decided upon ? Consensus seems to be that Foley will get the job ? What about the assistants, will Foley geta say in who fills these roles ( if he gets the job )?

 

[fatprop]

Barnes just needs to string some games together.

Simple as that.

When he does, he is a damn fine footballer.

 

[Richo]

Cracker of a post, Hawko.

 

[Slim 293]

I believe that there is a big difference between a State team and a franchise. I believe that the Tah's and Reds work best when they are run as State teams and this means a majority of players will come through the ranks of club/school rugby.

While the Reds and the Tahs will always feature players predominantly from their respective states, I hope you're not implying that the Reds' current success hasn't been achieved without the use of import players from outside Queensland?

 

[Crow]

The Board has a job to do and I am mystified at reports today that say it will take several months to do the bleeding obvious.

While I don't have much good to say about the Tahs board, if I were in their position, I'd be looking to present a fait accompli with a new coach signed, rather than subject itself to months of media speculation.

 

[waratahjesus]

If the board made a decision right away, would you nit criticize them if things didn't change, it's due process, making a decision quickly would only be made in reaction and may not actually be beneficial to the team.

Give them time to do a proper review and not react to Greg growdens column. When the wallabies start up no one will pay attention to the tahs and they can go about things without interference, plenty of time, I hope they take advantage and make the best choice for the team.

 

[GC]

A thought on bums on seats (and apologies for yet another Reds comparison):

On reflection, it really is winning rugby that gets the non-rugby tragics in, not high risk running rugby. But not winning the most games, it's winning the big ones. For a purely competition perspective, obviously the goal is winning the most games, get to the finals, win the GF. But most people don't watch the Tahs v Lions and Tahs v. Force etc. In the past (and notwithstanding the Cheetahs match this year) the Tahs have been great at not dropping points playing teams lower than them on the ladder. But come the big matches against top line sides during prime viewing time (I.e. Oz and NZ matches and particularly home matches), they've struggled. For many punters who are part-time viewers, these are the only matches they see. Victories over the Crusaders, Blues, Stormers, Bulls, Reds and, in the past, the Brumbies might be worth the same as any other game on the table but are gold for support.

Last year, everyone remembers the wins over the Stormers and Bulls for the Reds and forgets about a loss to the Sharks, Brumbies, Canes etc.. I suspect if the draw is helpful and the Tahs win against a majority of the top teams next year their support will be back. To do it they'll have to play good rugby, but not necessarily flashy rugby. And, like the Reds, it really doesn't matter if they drop a few games to rubbish teams along the way.