DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
We have Alcock and McCutcheon, we also have McKibben and a host of other young 9's in club rugby.
Waratahs 2012
- Thread starter Lee Grant
- Start date
- Status
We have Alcock and McCutcheon, we also have McKibben and a host of other young 9's in club rugby.
T
TheNextBigThing
Guest
That's called consistent performance. Hickey's coaching style and strategic decision making might not be everyone's cup of tea but his record remains impressive. There's nothing "limp" about regularly making the finals of the highest quality provincial competition in the world.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
I guess satisfaction is what you make of it. I have a feeling I'm a happier fan than say a Lions fan.
T
TheNextBigThing
Guest
order of operations
1. Make the finals for the first time in over a decade.
2. Make the GF
3. Win it
4. Criticize other teams for their lack of dedication.
You've skipped way ahead of yourself there Ruggo.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Does it not piss you off that the Tahs haven't made that final leap to winning the comp after consistantly getting so close? I'm not fishing when I say that because frankly the star studded Reds sides of the mid to late ninties were just as bad. I think a Lions fan would be happier seeing improvement in his side. Can a Tahs fan say that? In all due respect as an outsider looking in, it appears that the Tahs are just not willing to push themselves through their comfort zone in order to strive for better.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
That is the problem with the Tahs. The sightest bit of critical evaluation and they and their (not all) supporters go into defensive mode.
Hickey's Super Rugby coaching record:
2009 -- 5th (no finals appearance)
2010 -- 3rd (semi-final loss to Stormers)
2011 -- Currently 7th and in danger of missing the finals
Not sure I'd call that impressive, but I suppose it is consistent.
Let me clarify -- I am a die-hard Tahs fans. Having said that, I am not content with "scraping" into the finals or -- if we are ever so lucky -- with a single title win. I want a decade of dominance like the Crusaders have had (or the Blues before that). Shouldn't every Tah fan want that?? Given the strength of our rugby nurseries and club competition I think we could be a real powerhouse in Super Rugby, but we are not currently and I find that frustrating.
Regardless who the coach is, we should be striving to build a better more successful team every year, and if we are honest with ourselves I don't think our team (or the style with which they play) has really advanced under Hickey's tenure.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
Yeah, every now and then you get fed up with the team. Like every single fan of every sporting team in the world. But you've got to step back and try to look at everything from a different perspective than the automatic response, and I don't mean make excuses for them.
Take last year for instance. We made the finals, which isn't as easy as it is this year. Then we played against the Stormers in Cape Town. They we're the better side, with a gameplan that was perfectly suited against our team. I was dissapointed with the Tahs discipline, and their execution on the day wasn't top notch. But it was a hell of a challenge, and the Tahs put in a good effort. Life isn't perfect.
Yes, it pisses me off. To my way of thinking part of the problem is that the Tahs have been the most consistent Aussie performers in Super Rugby of the last 7-8 years -- the modicum of success reinforces the strategies etc Maybe catastrophe might enable a fresh approach -- then again, I am not sure I would want to wait a decade until my team is competitive again
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
And that's the problem. Both Alcock and McCutcheon have had significant time at seven this year and you would be generous if you described the results as patchy. By my count McCutcheon had one good game, one fair game and two bad games. (Memory being what it is I'm not sure if he had four or five outings, but he only had one good game). He doesn't look like a fetcher/pilferer in the early Smith/Waugh type of way, more a good linking and defensive player. Pocock he definitely isn't. Alcock has had one good game and two bad ones. In the two bad ones he missed seven tackles each time out of fifteen attempts. Had he missed one per match, an good score for a seven, we would have come back from SA with two wins. He looks more like a pilferer than Cutch but a seven has to be an effective tackler.
What to do? Neither can replace Waugh unless they substantially upgrade their game. We can't keep both and hope one will come good. One option would be Jono Jenkins at the Force who is stuck behind Pocock and Hodgson and needs both to be injured to get a run. He outperformed both Alcock and McCutcheon when he got his chance earlier this year. If we could get him or one of the two Brumbies 7's (Fainga'a or Hooper) then we could toss a coin and keep one of our current 7's and see who was going to perform.
At 9, we just do not know if McKibben is a starting quality player or not. Hickey has basically made sure that Burgess has started every game, even the easy ones, and given McKibben a couple of minutes at best. That's Hickey's "play 'em till they break" philosophy. Bugger the future, just think of the now. Squad development will be someone else's problem. So now we don't know whether McKibben is up to it. There are plenty of good young 9's in Shute, but only two in the lower reaches of the academy squad, and no one with any super experience. Instead this year we have Josh Holmes on contract who is clearly out of favour and is off to France next year. That was one totally wasted contract. If he was so disliked, why wasn't he cut before the season started and another 9 given time in the squad? Lunacy.
Now all we can do is hope McKibben is OK and bring in two young back-ups (Bredenhann, Hart, Roos, etc) or follow the Hickey doctrine and buy an old 9 from somewhere else (like Anesi).
Squad development is 30% of what the senior coach does. Look at what Hickey has done to develop the squad for next year. There is not one thing he has done that hasn't been forced on him by injury and he's squibbed it as soon as he could. Look at the non-development of Kingston, as soon as he could Hickey dropped him for Anesi with the lame excuse that Kingston would be required for the U20's. He was no more required than Gill or Shipperly. The new coach next year has been left a poisoned chalice.
I take your criticisms of Alcock's defense on board, but I reckon he pilfered at the break-down very effectively and more conspicuously than Phil Waugh has been for the last couple of years -- no, not up to Pocock, McCaw or Smith standard, but the guy is only 23. How many turnovers did he effect in those few games?
I reckon he has shown glimpses of real class and with some work his frailties might be able to be addressed . . .
T
TheNextBigThing
Guest
Who are you referring to, Alcock or Pocock?
Alcock -- isn't he?? Just checking my facts . . .
EDIT -- he's only 22, turns 23 in a couple of weeks.
EDIT x 2 Pocock is only a couple of months older.
Got to wonder though, with some game time (ie if Waugh weren't around) how much better -- and consistent -- could Alcock get?
EDIT -- he's only 22, turns 23 in a couple of weeks.
EDIT x 2 Pocock is only a couple of months older.
Got to wonder though, with some game time (ie if Waugh weren't around) how much better -- and consistent -- could Alcock get?
T
TheNextBigThing
Guest
I'm being a smartarse. They're basically the same age.
(technically Alcock isn't 23 til the 24th but the point remains)
(technically Alcock isn't 23 til the 24th but the point remains)
So Baxter is gone for next year, but what of Phil Waugh? His contract is up at the end of the year, and so far the silence has been deafening. The Waratahs surely can't offer him more than a one-year contract after his injury-plagued year.
Or will they do a Matt Burke and show him the door. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Waugh issue is dealt with just after the 2012 coach is decided.
Or will they do a Matt Burke and show him the door. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Waugh issue is dealt with just after the 2012 coach is decided.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yeesh...
After the weekend I'm not sure if Reds' fans have the right to criticse the attitude of other fans?
T
TheNextBigThing
Guest
Waugh won't leave on his own terms. Not until he's won the bloody thing.
I also can't see a new coach showing him the door. If they do they've got the biggest balls in professional rugby.
Baxter has a very successful career that footy was getting in the way of, it makes sense for him to retire with some left in the tank.
I also can't see a new coach showing him the door. If they do they've got the biggest balls in professional rugby.
Baxter has a very successful career that footy was getting in the way of, it makes sense for him to retire with some left in the tank.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Somehow, I doubt the Tahs will support a geriatric Phil Waugh with walking frame...
- Status