Waratahs 2012

[rugbysmartarse]

Not meaning to reignite cross border nonsense, but the state of origin argument is moot IMO. I don't care where a player was born, if he is the best option for a team he should be persued. Kingi and To'omua have shown they are willing rugby troubadours, so why not try to pick up 2 young talented players in key positions that your team lacks.

The waratahs lack of pathway development in these positions is the subject for another thread

 

[matty_k]

If you feel you can better display your talents elsewhere why wouldn't you go.

 

[cyclopath]

Not meaning to reignite cross border nonsense, but the state of origin argument is moot IMO. I don't care where a player was born, if he is the best option for a team he should be persued. Kingi and To'omua have shown they are willing rugby troubadours, so why not try to pick up 2 young talented players in key positions that your team lacks.

The waratahs lack of pathway development in these positions is the subject for another thread

Exactly. Reds have imports too. It's irrelevant. Ultimately most players in Aus will come from NSW and Qld - I would rather see players of merit getting regular starts than warming a bench. It would be great if they all popped up from NSW junior ranks, but in this professional day and age, borders are less important.

 

[Maroon Army]

Yep, there's nothing wrong with it. Neither is emigrating to Brisbane as a youngster and signing a contract with the Reds their first year out of school.

 

[cyclopath]

Yep, there's nothing wrong with it. Neither is emigrating to Brisbane as a youngster and getting a contract with the Reds first year out of school.

Of course. If that's what they want.

 

[Gnostic]

The Tahs do not lack a pathway for development, they lack any real direction in selection and tactics. For years they have talked a good running game but played a tactical kicking and territory game. Why then have they allowed the best tactical kicking 10s to leave Oz for Euroland because they couldn't crack a Super start or even squad position? Here I am talking about Malone, Parks et al. They were very good tactical kickers and IMO better than Hangers.

They play Beale at 10 and do not have the structures to play a running game off him expecting him to play the tactical kicking game they favour and we get the shits and say he isn't a 10 (and I'm not convinced but would like to see him in a team with a running and in depth support structure). The other elephant in the room is the service from Burgess. This year it has been back to its woeful best. When he is under the slightest pressure his pass goes to shit. Players cannot be in motion to receive a pass because he cannot hit a moving target, (which is a major contrast to Genia) so any ball may as well be slow as any pass over 5 metres is received by a flat footed player and easily defended.

It all comes back to selection policy. The Tahs do not select a squad to win, they select to not lose and in doing so have close to the best defence in the comp and one of the worst (in execution) attacks.

 

[Bowside]

Exactly. Reds have imports too. It's irrelevant. Ultimately most players in Aus will come from NSW and Qld - I would rather see players of merit getting regular starts than warming a bench. It would be great if they all popped up from NSW junior ranks, but in this professional day and age, borders are less important.

Borders are less important yes, but a continued failure to produce quality players in crucial positions is very worrying for australian rugby. Professionalism is plugging the gaps, but get a few injuries and ship starts leaking. The waratahs can't expect to win the trophy until they fix this problem.

 

[Ruggo]

Yep, there's nothing wrong with it. Neither is emigrating to Brisbane as a youngster and signing a contract with the Reds first year out of school.

Chris Latham disproves a lot of this argument for me. Regardless of where he was born or where he started, the bloke wore that Reds jersey with immense pride through some of the darkest years of the franchise.

 

[Richo]

It all comes back to selection policy. The Tahs do not select a squad to win, they select to not lose and in doing so have close to the best defence in the comp and one of the worst (in execution) attacks.

Spot on. It's one of the most frustrating things about being a Waratahs fan. It just feels like the team is more worried about things going wrong than they are wanting things to go right. Hence "we just want to win one game in SA". Urgh.

 

[Bowside]

So now that I got that off my chest, I think it very clear for all to see that the waratahs need to sign a playmaker for next season. I dont see barnes lasting much longer and hangers is a limited player.

JOC (James O'Connor) has indicated that he wants to go everywhere except the tahs. To'omua should get decent game time at the brumbies next season with giteau leaving, likewise kingi at the rebels if cipriani heads home. So I don't think either of these 3 are an option at this point.

This pretty much leaves the tahs to sign a player from clubland, or a foreign marque player like michelak. I haven't seen enough sydney clubs games this year to comment on who (if any) are worthy options, however, in Brisbane, Matt Brandon from easts is solid as ever. Another option is 7's star James Stannard from the force, who had a decent game at 10 on the weekend.

There is also of course the option to poach a league player. I have no idea about who is off contract but I like the look of young kiwi Keiran Foran from manly, as well as Cooper Cronk from the storm, who played his schoolboy rugby at inside centre for St Laurence's. Jarrod Croaker from canberra is also worth a look in. Rugby league players can be great investments (SBW, Barnes, Elsom, Tuqiri) you just have to be careful about who you sign.

 

[tranquility]

So now that I got that off my chest, I think it very clear for all to see that the waratahs need to sign a playmaker for next season. I dont see barnes lasting much longer and hangers is a limited player.

JOC (James O'Connor) has indicated that he wants to go everywhere except the tahs. To'omua should get decent game time at the brumbies next season with giteau leaving, likewise kingi at the rebels if cipriani heads home. So I don't think either of these 3 are an option at this point.

This pretty much leaves the tahs to sign a player from clubland, or a foreign marque player like michelak. I haven't seen enough sydney clubs games this year to comment on who (if any) are worthy options, however, in Brisbane, Matt Brandon from easts is solid as ever. Another option is 7's star James Stannard from the force, who had a decent game at 10 on the weekend.

There is also of course the option to poach a league player. I have no idea about who is off contract but I like the look of young kiwi Keiran Foran from manly, as well as Cooper Cronk from the storm, who played his schoolboy rugby at inside centre for St Laurence's. Jarrod Croaker from canberra is also worth a look in. Rugby league players can be great investments (SBW, Barnes, Elsom, Tuqiri) you just have to be careful about who you sign.

Your missing the obvious one. Jono Lance

 

[Lee Grant]

I see the future...

McKibben, Halangahu, Carter, Cross, Mitchell, Turner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
The Journeymen...kind of like INXS without a Michael Hutchence.

Well, I thought it was funny though it didn't get much of a laugh.


Some of the comments hark back to the old days of "Boo a Blue"; others are a bit like the schoolboy forum; some are like both.

Even if Blind Freddie had been at schoolboy matches in the last 5 years he would know that Queensland would have to lose some young backs to other places in the future - and the future is now. Some folks who fancied themselves as good judges (ahem) mentioned this at the time.

I'll add that a few forwards have gone too to save others rushing to their keyboards, but it's the young Qld backs that kept cropping up year after year at Schools tournaments that took the eye most of the time.

Qld will lose a few more backs. The Tahs tend to lose a few forwards. The other teams without a large player base tend to import from the two larger rugby populations. Players go to other places for different reasons but one of the most important ones is to get higher in a Super squad pecking order, and especially if there is a chance to start regularly elsewhere. As we know: the system doesn't work perfectly but using the market place is as good a way as any to spread player talent.

I understand reacting to the comments of others, but whingeing in all seriousness about players moving on is like pissing in the wind.



I wrote before that the constraint of having only 30 "core" contracted players next year was most likely to anticipate the gradual withdrawal of foreigners from the Rebels in the future. The trick for the Tahs and the Reds will be to somehow persuade very good young players to accept one of the 5 "rookie" contracts permitted, by all reports, or to accept a gig in their professional academies, or to stay if they are already there.

That, and doing it all under a salary cap, not only for next year but planning the cap for the following year, dealing with foreign players and the sketchy protocols regarding third party payments, dealing with the timing of when current contracts expire, will all be very tricky for the back room boys.

Like the players they will have to earn their pay - and are likely burning the midnight oil already.

Midnight Oil? Maybe that's what cyclopath was referring to in his vision of the future quoted above. Maybe all this will work for Oz rugby and the band plays Waltzing Matilda.

 

[Joe Mac]

I know its a long shot but when is Gasnier off contract? We would be a great buy for the Tah's. Rugby experience in France and good off-field behaviour...

 

[Jnor]

Well, I thought it was funny though it didn't get much of a laugh.


Some of the comments hark back to the old days of "Boo a Blue"; others are a bit like the schoolboy forum; some are like both.

Even if Blind Freddie had been at schoolboy matches in the last 5 years he would know that Queensland would have to lose some young backs to other places in the future - and the future is now. Some folks who fancied themselves as good judges (ahem) mentioned this at the time.

I'll add that a few forwards have gone too to save others rushing to their keyboards, but it's the young Qld backs that kept cropping up year after year at Schools tournaments that took the eye most of the time.

Qld will lose a few more backs. The Tahs tend to lose a few forwards. The other teams without a large player base tend to import from the two larger rugby populations. Players go to other places for different reasons but one of the most important ones is to get higher in a Super squad pecking order, and especially if there is a chance to start regularly elsewhere. As we know: the system doesn't work perfectly but using the market place is as good a way as any to spread player talent.

I understand reacting to the comments of others, but whingeing in all seriousness about players moving on is like pissing in the wind.



I wrote before that the constraint of having only 30 "core" contracted players next year was most likely to anticipate the gradual withdrawal of foreigners from the Rebels in the future. The trick for the Tahs and the Reds will be to somehow persuade very good young players to accept one of the 5 "rookie" contracts permitted, by all reports, or to accept a gig in their professional academies, or to stay if they are already there.

That, and doing it all under a salary cap, not only for next year but planning the cap for the following year, dealing with foreign players and the sketchy protocols regarding third party payments, dealing with the timing of when current contracts expire, will all be very tricky for the back room boys.

Like the players they will have to earn their pay - and are likely burning the midnight oil already.

Midnight Oil? Maybe that's what cyclopath was referring to in his vision of the future quoted above. Maybe all this will work for Oz rugby and the band plays Waltzing Matilda.

I can only hope I can cover all bases with my comments, Lee.

Very droll with the final line, I would have thought you might be a bit less fatalistic about the prospects for the future, I'm happy to watch the ARU send them over and see what happens next year.

 

[Hawko]

I know its a long shot but when is Gasnier off contract? We would be a great buy for the Tah's. Rugby experience in France and good off-field behaviour...

Short memory syndrome.

 

[Ash]

Indeed. The "Toey Human" definitely has had has off-field issues in the past. He's also back at St George Illawarra on (IIRC) a long term contract. He will probably see out the rest of his career there.

 

[fatprop]

This can't be serious ...............................................

New South Wales Waratahs believed to be interested in signing All Blacks halfback Andy Ellis

By Bret Harris
The Australian
June 01, 2011 8:40AM

The Waratahs are looking for an international halfback to replace Toulouse-bound Luke Burgess and it is understood they have had discussions with Ellis.

Capped 18 times for the All Blacks and a member of the Crusaders' championship-winning teams in 2006 and 2008, Ellis is exactly the type of experienced halfback the Waratahs are looking for to direct them around the field.

NSW coach Chris Hickey would not confirm or deny the team's interest in Ellis.

"There are lots of whispers around," Hickey said in Durban where the Waratahs are preparing for their important game against the Bulls in Pretoria on Saturday (AEST).

"At this stage, we have put a hold on our recruitment until we get back. We'll look at it next week.

"At the moment, our focus is on the Bulls, which is a pivotal game for us."

But Hickey did confirm that the Waratahs had made a request to the ARU to release outside back Tom Kingston from the Australian squad to compete in the under-20 world championship in Italy.

Injuries in the outside backs, including to Rob Horne and Drew Mitchell, forced the Waratahs to take Eastwood fullback Ben Batger on their two-game tour of South Africa, a situation that has been compounded by a knee injury to outside centre Ryan Cross, who may not play again this season.

"Losing Rob Horne and Crossy, we have requested the ARU considers releasing Tom Kingston to come back," Hickey said. "We are just waiting on a reply from them.

"We have taken some fairly big hits in the backline and (five-eighth) Berrick Barnes (concussion) is a week-to-week proposition. Tom Kingston has started some games for us and has been a consistent part of the 22. We believe we have a case to request his release."

The Waratahs' attempt to bring back Kingston follows the ARU's decision to release Australian under-20s openside flanker Liam Gill to Queensland Reds to replace Beau Robinson, who dislocated his elbow in the 17-16 win against the Crusaders in Brisbane last Sunday.

"We said when the squad was first selected that if injuries occurred at the Super Rugby level, we would look at assisting the provinces by releasing players back to them," ARU chief executive John O'Neill said.

 

[Hawko]

This can't be serious ...............................................

I guarantee it is. Hickey will bring him back and sit him on the bench while Anesi takes up valuable space on the park. I doubt he'll even get selected unless Barnes breaks down again or Anesi and Turner get injured. Look at how they've treated Pakalani for one knock-on.

 

[MrTimms]

You can only sign one non-eligible marquee at a time, and they can only sign for 2 years max (not sure if there is some dispensation in this for the rebels).

So there will be no Anesi next year, <sarcasm>even though he is finally hitting his straps</sarcasm>

 

[fatprop]

I fail to see why McKibbon isn't seen as the logical choice as Burgess's replacement and see them planning for a quality young-ling to be given bench time.

This fear of youth is just baffling