Waratahs 2012

[Inside Shoulder]

Towers was the coach's coach, so the Randwick chaps said.


As for short passing, this is even more important in today's games, usually played at night, often with a slippery ball. Surely professional coaches and players are able to work this out, I scream inwardly, as I watch the interminable fumbling and bumbling.

My understanding is that towers learnt the theory on the 1927-28 waratahs tour from a c "johnnie" wallace....by way of aside


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[rugbysmartarse]

I suspect neither Hart nor L Timani will feature barring another year of significant injury. Lopeti is huge, but the only game I've seen him play he has worse hands than his brother.

 

[TOCC]

I suspect neither Hart nor L Timani will feature barring another year of significant injury. Lopeti is huge, but the only game I've seen him play he has worse hands than his brother.

I feared as much in relation to Timani....

Surely Hart will get some game time though

 

[qwerty51]

Hart? He is the 3rd halfback so only if injuries apply. Saw him once for Southern Districts, nothing special

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm trusting that the Tahs forwards will be strong again this year though they will probably nod off in a couple of games, as usual. I will be quite deflated if the backs don't use the ball better though.

As part of his brief I hope that Gaffney gets the scrummies to get rid of the ball quickly as their first imperative. Pretorius is not that kind of 9 unfortunately, but he should create chances that we didn't get before because his first half dozen steps out of the blocks are like those of a sprinter. Our wingers and fullbacks should be trained to follow him.

Apart from that I hope our scrummies' footwork is better. Catchpole and Hipwell never had to arrange their feet to get into a position to pass: if they were passing right their left foot was already opposite the ball when they picked the pill up and they swept it right, across their bodies, with minimal preparation. Nor did they need to get into perfect body alignment to pass when they got bouncy or otherwise crap ball. Their goal was to get rid of the ball quickly and if the ball didn't have lipstick and makeup on it, too bad.

There is not enough of that in modern scrumhalf play. Hardly anybody is a crapmeister, a disposer of bad ball, as they were, in world rugby. Catchpole and Hipwell were geniuses at getting rid of the ball, but my point is that nobody, especially at the Tahs, seem to teach or practise quick disposal, at all costs.

 

[Hawko]

I suspect neither Hart nor L Timani will feature barring another year of significant injury. Lopeti is huge, but the only game I've seen him play he has worse hands than his brother.

Sita's hands improved as he got older and more experienced. The Tahs fan's great hope is that this is in Lopeti''s gene's too

 

[Hawko]

I'm trusting that the Tahs forwards will be strong again this year though they will probably nod off in a couple of games, as usual. I will be quite deflated if the backs don't use the ball better though.

There is not enough of that in modern scrumhalf play. Hardly anybody is a crapmeister, a disposer of bad ball, as they were, in world rugby. Catchpole and Hipwell were geniuses at getting rid of the ball, but my point is that nobody, especially at the Tahs, seem to teach or practise quick disposal, at all costs.

My hope is that Gaffney's Randwick training will come back to him and he'll tear to shreds any halfback that doesn't clear it quickly. Catchpole was a genius. We all think Genia is OK mostly and in the world top 5, but Catchy on one leg was twice the player. Back then Catchy was always playing behind packs that were on the back foot (I doubt he knew how to play behind a Black or Bok pack) but the ball was gone in a flash.

 

[fatprop]

The games changed since Catchpole.

The nine now needs to be a running threat to keep the backrow and defending first man on their heels. No matter how great the pass if the defenders don't need to watch the nine, the backs will be rushed and pressured under modern defensive practices.

Pretorius's running threat should create space for Barnes, as Genia creates space for Cooper

 

[wamberal]

The games changed since Catchpole.

The nine now needs to be a running threat to keep the backrow and defending first man on their heels. No matter how great the pass if the defenders don't need to watch the nine, the backs will be rushed and pressured under modern defensive practices.

Pretorius's running threat should create space for Barnes, as Genia creates space for Cooper

Actually, Catchy was a brilliant, quick, ball runner. I would have said that this was his main strength, actually. I was talking to Karl Von Kotze, who is now coaching on the central coast, and had a season or so with the Galloping Greens as a #8. He said he scored a lot of tries, just following Catchy around when he made a break, and being there to take the pass.


Catchy burst onto the scene straight out of school, he was good enough to take the Australian half-back spot from Des Connor, who in turn was good enough to become an All Black a year or so later. He was a little genius. I suspect that most of us talk more about his ability to clear the ball than we do about his great attacking abilities. I think we took those for granted.


Of course in those days there was a lot more room for attacking - the forwards tended to stick together in a bunch. You would never, ever, see a forward in the backline. Well, very occasionally, maybe.

 

[MrTimms]

Some things I'd really like to know about the Tah squad:

10. What's the status on Horne's hamstrings?

Anyone got any inside information?

Waratahs just tweeted this:

@NSWWaratahs: Welcome back to training a fit and fast Rob Horne, see first picture here facebook.com/waratahs

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash4/405524_10150489753977144_10622282143_9129660_2021088458_n.jpg

 

[waratahjesus]

Rob Horne injury free training today. Let's hope he stays that way.

 

[tranquility]

He just looks like the predator doesn't he? Almost my favourite player...

 

[suckerforred]

And no tape to be seen.... Must be a new feeling for him.

 

[Swat]

He just looks like the predator doesn't he? Almost my favourite player...

Ditto, minus the almost

 

[Hawko]

Waratahs just tweeted this:


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash4/405524_10150489753977144_10622282143_9129660_2021088458_n.jpg

I do like the look of those quads - awesome. They make his knees look shrunken.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

imbalance between quads and hammies???????

 

[Gnostic]

I think they would if they could play against the same defenders.
The defensive structures today cannot be compared to what we saw in the "golden days"
The game has changed forever unfortunately, we now watch a game that sees counter attacks outscoring set piece backline moves 10 to 1, which has everything to do with the quality of the defence, not the lack of quality in attack.

The defensive systems shave changed. I argue that man for man the individuals are no better or worse defenders. As for hard hitters I would say that there may well be less individual "hard men" around today, especially in Oz. In 1991 you could comfortable say Willie O was feared and Tim Gavin was no slouch. For ABs they had Bunce, Little, M. Jones and Z. Brooke (I refuse to include the thug Low) England had Mike Teague and a few others in a pack that was perhaps the best in the world. Of course nobody will ever forget Brian Lima (least of all Derrick Houguard).

As for your counter attack statement I would assert that we do not see as many tries from set piece moves not because they don't work but simply because they do not seem to be run very regularly anymore. The few times the Wallabies have used a set piece play it has been very successfull when executed properly.

 

[I like to watch]

The defensive systems shave changed. I argue that man for man the individuals are no better or worse defenders. As for hard hitters I would say that there may well be less individual "hard men" around today, especially in Oz. In 1991 you could comfortable say Willie O was feared and Tim Gavin was no slouch. For ABs they had Bunce, Little, M. Jones and Z. Brooke (I refuse to include the thug Low) England had Mike Teague and a few others in a pack that was perhaps the best in the world. Of course nobody will ever forget Brian Lima (least of all Derrick Houguard).

As for your counter attack statement I would assert that we do not see as many tries from set piece moves not because they don't work but simply because they do not seem to be run very regularly anymore. The few times the Wallabies have used a set piece play it has been very successfull when executed properly.

I actually wasn't referring to big hits, but more about the much improved structure these days.BTW I don't think any/many of the players you quote ever played with a leather ball, which was your original point.
The lack of set piece moves is a reflection of the increased risk when confronted by a quicker,better drilled and better educated defensive line( video sessions) than in the days of the leather football.

 

[Gnostic]

The Wallabies Gilbert I had in 1991 was leather, shiney and white. I would be interested to hear what the competition ball was back then, I would have thought it was the same as the replica I had. I agreed the systems have changed somewhat, and players are now professional which means they are fitter, but I will never agree that they have any better skills or read a game better. Some are better and some are worse acording to the individual. You said that modern players could (attack with set peices) if they played against the same (older players) implying that those older players were poor defenders. I would argue that perhaps the fitness levels were at the high amatuer level but the technical skills as I said depended on the individual.

The facts remain that the Wallabies have run set piece plays with great success recently when they have executed the play with speed and skill. If a team defends in a pattern to a system a set play can actually break them down easier, if thought out and executed properly. I think the ABs did this well against the Wallabies in the semi and broke their defensive game plan fairly easily and only some committed scrambling prevented a total rout.

In any event I hope to see some decent backline play from the Tahs this year with not only set piece plays but support in depth and players working off the ball. I don't want to see worthless box kicks, aimless kicks gifting the opposition possession. If the tactic is to kick I want to see it executed well and chased by players other than Carter and Turner. If the tactic is to run I would hope there is better than shovel it to Carter to bash it up as a backline tactic.

 

[I like to watch]

I agreed the systems have changed somewhat, and players are now professional which means they are fitter, but I will never agree that they have any better skills or read a game better. Some are better and some are worse acording to the individual. You said that modern players could (attack with set peices) if they played against the same (older players) implying that those older players were poor defenders. I would argue that perhaps the fitness levels were at the high amatuer level but the technical skills as I said depended on the individual.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not dissing our former greats,an elite player in 1981 or 1991 would be an elite player today.But wouldn't anyone expect a full time professional to excel against an amateur?
Wouldn't anyone read the game better with more coaching and analysis?Wouldn't a professional unit be harder to breach than a bunch of committed amateurs?I have no doubt that the space and time has been reduced dramatically in the past 20 years.This improvement in defence has had an impact on how the attack is now structured IMO.
Set piece plays is a bit of a misnomer IMO. Most planned moves (not all) are no longer from set pieces but off phase ball.
Totally agree with hoping there will be a change of attitude and execution from the Tahs this year.
BTW Brian Lima is one of my all time favs!