Waratahs 2011

[fatprop]

I reckon if he ends up at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) is more important to the 4s than any other Oz 12.

I also reckon that if Carter was so valuable to the Tahs, why is he no certain selection?

Because he is the ugly step sister, the Tahs keep looking for a "prettier" alternative.

So far they haven't found a more effective alternative.

JOC (James O'Connor) would be a good compromise.

 

[Gnostic]

Hence why I, along with a few others would like to see Horne moved in one spot. Carter is as I said all last year the limiting factor of the Tahs backline. Horne at 12 would not compromise the defence, if anything it would improve as Turner is a very good defender and it would give so much more in attack.

Carter or Cross can sit on the bench, though unless he has fixed his defensive issues and general play Carter is the better bet by far. The highlights of the Tahs trial gave me hope that perhaps he had but reading some of the comments here and else perhaps that was somewhat premature.

 

[Blue]

I don't see Hickey dropping Carter as he suits the style Hickey wants them to play. In his mind anyway.

Horne / Turner is a very exciting prospect but I doubt we'll see much of it.

Carter does the job expected of him but in my view players like him hold the Tahs back. They need more spark from 10/12 to really get the backline to go to the next level and I just can't see Carter with anybody inside him achieving that. That won't happen with someone who bangs it up without thinking.

 

[#1 Tah]

Ashley-Cooper re-signs with ARU and may join Waratahs
Melissa Wood
February 7, 2011 - 3:28PM

Adam Ashley-Cooper during Brumbies training last month. Photo: Melissa Adams
Centre Adam Ashley-Cooper hopes his decision to re-commit to the Wallabies, post World Cup, spurs Australian teammates to follow his lead.

Ashley-Cooper joined fellow Brumby Stephen Moore in turning down a lucrative offer to play in Europe and extending his contract with the ARU until the end of 2013.

While Australian rugby fans fearing a mass exodus of stars following this year’s World Cup can breathe a little easier, Brumbies’ followers remain on tenterhooks with Ashley-Cooper yet to commit to Canberra.

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The 26-year-old is considering whether to leave the Brumbies, where he currently has 62 caps, and join his girlfriend in Sydney and play with the NSW Waratahs.

‘‘I need some time to get on top of a few personal circumstances to finalise a decision,’’ he said.

‘‘I’m very happy here in Canberra and happy with the Brumbies, there’s just a few personal issues I need time to consider.’’

Despite his talent and versatility, having played wing, fullback and inside centre for Australia, Ashley-Cooper hasn’t been approached by any other states.

Officially at least, Melbourne Rebels skipper and long-time friend Stirling Mortlock has been doing his best to get Ashley-Cooper to move south.

‘‘There’s been plenty of texts and I’m sure there will be plenty more to follow after today,’’ Ashley-Cooper said.

The 51-Test veteran is taking on a similar unofficial recruitment role for the ARU, hoping to convince his Test teammates stay on.

As many as 15 other Wallabies come off contract in October with many, including Matt Giteau, Dean Mumm and Luke Burgess, linked with deals off-shore.

‘‘I was very, very close to going so I’d imagine there are a lot of others in the same position.

‘‘I’m hoping that my decision will help influence other players to stay behind as well.

‘‘I think there’s exciting times ahead and the Wallabies, with the progress they’re making, I think there’s just too much fun to be had.’’

Ashley-Cooper said the lure of playing the British and Irish Lions in Australia in 2013 was key to his decision.

He said he was glued to the television in his loungeroom on the NSW central coast in 2001 to watch Australia edge the tourists 2-1 in a thrilling series.

‘‘It’s a once in a lifetime opportunity for a player and not many people get to experience it.

‘‘It’s certainly something that motivates me and influenced my decision to stay because I’d certainly like to be a part of it in 2013.’’

After missing last week’s trial in Darwin, Ashley-Cooper will make his first appearance of 2011 in the Brumbies’ final pre-season trial against the Hurricanes in Canberra on Thursday.

Where would AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) fit into our backline? I think he may just edge TC out of 12, but I dont see how else he could fit.

 

[I like to watch]

and his value to the tahs is greater than fingers or smiths. the reds and brumbs can play without them without losing much, the tahs are a better team with carter int he starting side. his ability to get go forward, especially in the second half of last year when the tahs lost TPn and palu and struggled for go forward was exactly what the tahs game plan called for.

if you read my actual post, you would see i said "value to his individual team" not compared to the other two guys but said he is of greater value tot he tahs than those players to there teams. for those that line players up and say one is better than the other based on obscure cum driven vision when they are not actually lining up against the same opposition under the same conditions and far more importantly there not playing the same GAME PLAN i really dont get it. Finger has done crap all to justify being anywhere near the wallabies, smith is one dimensional but somehow talked up, he will be lucky to even start for the brumbies.

carter is the best 12 the waratahs have by a long way and the team has always been stronger with him in it. saying he doesnt offload when the game plan calls for going wide on the back of going forward and he often has the ball in little space is an absolute joke, especially when you support the worst defender in aus rugby history to have the ten jersey for the wallabies.

Hang on, I read your post you called me a fool for saying Carter was the least skillful 12.I list the skillset for a 12 which demonstrates he has a low skillset & you ignore that completely and now you tell me to read the bit where you say he is integral to the game plan.
Seeing that he cannot step to beat a man, can't get outside of anyone with his pace and cannot setup the guy outside him.If you are the coach all you can get him to do is to truck it up & try and get fast ball out of it.
Given that we all see that's what the tahs do, lets see how it is defended against this year.I'm guessing it won't be as effective,but time will tell.
Your bit about me being a supporter of QC (Quade Cooper)'s is way off..

 

[Slim 293]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would be stupid to become a Tah...

 

[Ash]

Personally, I'd take AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) over Horne at 13 quite easily.

 

[waratahjesus]

Hang on, I read your post you called me a fool for saying Carter was the least skillful 12.I list the skillset for a 12 which demonstrates he has a low skillset & you ignore that completely and now you tell me to read the bit where you say he is integral to the game plan.
Seeing that he cannot step to beat a man, can't get outside of anyone with his pace and cannot setup the guy outside him.If you are the coach all you can get him to do is to truck it up & try and get fast ball out of it.
Given that we all see that's what the tahs do, lets see how it is defended against this year.I'm guessing it won't be as effective,but time will tell.
Your bit about me being a supporter of QC (Quade Cooper)'s is way off..

as the supercoach you are, will you be paying visits to schools and clubs around the country and advising kids to give up based on your checklist of what a 12 is?
load of crap there young man.

he can actually do all the things you mentioned, he isnt unable to do them. he suits a certain game plan as my argument said and thats how he is used to great effect but the most successful aussie team in the last 5-6 years.

your bit about not being a fool is way off..

 

[#1 Tah]

Personally, I'd take AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) over Horne at 13 quite easily.

Yeah, but imagine a centre pair of both

 

[Gnostic]

Yeah, but imagine a centre pair of both

Imagine Horne at 12 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13. I don't think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) played all that well at 12, and his skill set is significantly different to Horne. I also feel a move in one could well help Horne with his injury issues long term.

 

[waratahjesus]

i would just take horne to be injury free for a year before i started making wishlists about moving him round.

 

[I like to watch]

as the supercoach you are, will you be paying visits to schools and clubs around the country and advising kids to give up based on your checklist of what a 12 is?
load of crap there young man.

he can actually do all the things you mentioned, he isnt unable to do them. he suits a certain game plan as my argument said and thats how he is used to great effect but the most successful aussie team in the last 5-6 years.

your bit about not being a fool is way off..

settle down.
There is no point debating with anyone who says that TC has all the skills but chooses not to use them.
that will do me.
I love your passion,but I think your meds might be overdue

 

[Lee Grant]

There was a Fijian in the vicinity, but he should have still got the ball to Waugh

There may have been a Fijian in the vicinity of Waugh after Carter was tackled but I can't remember one who could have troubled Waugh scoring, even in a tackle, had Carter passed it when he should have. It was very close to the goal line. One guy near to me was bagging Carter from the kick off and he nearly went beserk when that happened. Mind you he was also saying "Give it to Beale" when Barnes was lining up his kicks after missing a few.

 

[waratahjesus]

settle down.
There is no point debating with anyone who says that TC has all the skills but chooses not to use them.
that will do me.
I love your passion,but I think your meds might be overdue

dont need to calm down, i susspect you have read my comments with a tone, if you read them as a 12th century british grammer school student they sound much different.
carter can run,
i have seen him step,
i have seen him pass,
i have seen him bust the line,
i have seen him tackle,
i have seen him kick,
i have seen him chase,
i have seen him in a super 14 finals series,
i have seen him dominate his opposite number on numerous occasions

therefore he checks your list and more.

now to answer my question, if a young child is unable to do something on your checklist, are you voluntering your services to say he can no longer play the position?

i will be back in ten, i have to pop up the shops and buy a clue, can you pm me your address so i can get it to you as soon as possible?

 

[Lee Grant]

Geez, that one's against the grain Lee.

I should have mentioned: "compared to the European season". The Super season will be longer than last year: three more pool games to equal 16, but it is a short season by pro rugby standards.

In France they have 26 pool games and add on the 6 pool games in the Heineken Cup, or other comps if their team doesn't make the HC, and you get the idea.

They have more in their squads but it's not to the point of enabling Horne to be tried out at 12 some time.

 

[Lee Grant]

A highlight was having an Eastwood loosie pick up an intercept from 50-60 metres from the line, and out sprint Inman to score. They both looked pretty wrecked afterwards.

That was Hugh Perrett, the fastest forward in Sydney most likely, but it underlines the impression that Inman is not that fast. I have seen him since he was a young bloke and was always of the opinion that he should be a 12 where his lack of speed would not be that important. Thought that about brother Dr. Luke as well.

He played well otherwise did Mitch.

I didn't think that Halangahu was as bad as you said as he was working with a rabble. When the Force reserves came on the Baas got better ball and they chalked up a couple of tries, but that was about the same time that Hangers got rested. That other flyhalf was Harvey; scored a nice try at the end didn't he?

 

[Gnostic]

I should have mentioned: "compared to the European season". The Super season will be longer than last year: three more pool games to equal 16, but it is a short season by pro rugby standards.

In France they have 26 pool games and add on the 6 pool games in the Heineken Cup, or other comps if their team doesn't make the HC, and you get the idea.

They have more in their squads but it's not to the point of enabling Horne to be tried out at 12 some time.

I rather see him start at 12 in a few Super games and if it isn't working he can be moved to 13 and the norm re-established. It is much preferable to give it a go early on in the comp than as a last resort when the Tahs are trying to scrape into the finals again like they usually wait before giving things a go. It would also be advantageous from a Wallabies point of view to know how he would go in that spot, and then there could be no excuses from some that he has not played in that spot at Super Rugby and from others (like me) that he needs to play there in Super Rugby before getting selected there for the Wallabies.

 

[Bruce Ross]

There may have been a Fijian in the vicinity of Waugh after Carter was tackled but I can't remember one who could have troubled Waugh scoring, even in a tackle, had Carter passed it when he should have. It was very close to the goal line. One guy near to me was bagging Carter from the kick off and he nearly went beserk when that happened.

I remember Carter being bagged for a number of years because of one instance he didn't read Barnes wanting him to come inside of him. Even if he is to be crucified for a pass he never threw on Friday night - we still retained possession by the way - anyone who didn't think he had an impressive 40 minutes must have been like your near neighbour, "bagging Carter from the kick off."

 

[Gnostic]

I remember Carter being bagged for a number of years because of one instance he didn't read Barnes wanting him to come inside of him. Even if he is to be crucified for a pass he never threw on Friday night - we still retained possession by the way - anyone who didn't think he had an impressive 40 minutes must have been like your near neighbour, "bagging Carter from the kick off."

Bruce that happened just last year didn't it?

Tom is good at what he does, very good at some aspects especially carrying into the teeth of the defence, but he is very predictable and must be cut out if you want the ball to get wide with any alacrity as he will 99% of the time die with the ball. The other thing that has got so many people offside, including dedicated Tahs fans is his on field behaviour. I remember one instance against the chiefs I think last year where he lay at the back of their ruck on his belly and when he was pushed by foot out of the way he flopped around like a fish out of water grabbing at his back whinging at the ref who rightly penalised him. Then there is the fact that if there is any crappy handbag type rubbish going to happen you are guaranteed that Tommy Carter will be the one to instigate it, he is worse than any halfback for that than I've ever seen.

 

[waratahjesus]

as i said before having him do the predictable crashball stuff works as the tahs gameplan involves him getting them over the advantage line, kurtley usually joins the line for the next play that allows them to have two playmakers n attack and exploit the width that TC creates.

i dont care how he beahaves if he doesnt get penalised for it.