Waratahs 2011

[waratahjesus]

There was a Fijian in the vicinity, but he should have still got the ball to Waugh.Carter has no idea how to add value to support runners, he is just a crash baller with has a good kick chase.It's either catch pass or go into contact & see what happens.
I cannot think of a less skillful 12 in the super comp.
His footwork is similiar to some of the slower locks in the comp.
Make him captain of the Uni side.

i cant think of a more stupid uneducated rant than saying he is the most unskillful 12 in the country. his offloading might not be the best, but the fact is until he came into the waratahs side last year we had two playmakers and it meant absolutely nothing. He gets go forward and is excellent in contact and recycles the ball with ease and speed as to allow kurtley to join the backline and play as an extra 5/8 and put the wingers over. its a freaken game plan and carter works it better than most centres in the comp.

line him up against faingallalalalalala or tyronious and he is of much greater value to his individual team than either of them.

 

[fatprop]

I thought Carter was fine, he plays his role and that is not to chuck 50/50 balls, it is to have confidence in his team and set up that next phase.

He makes good yards, provides good clean ball from phase, chases hard every time, revs up the side and tackles everything that comes near him.

And you know he will do that every time he plays.

 

[Gnostic]

i cant think of a more stupid uneducated rant than saying he is the most unskillful 12 in the country. his offloading might not be the best, but the fact is until he came into the waratahs side last year we had two playmakers and it meant absolutely nothing. He gets go forward and is excellent in contact and recycles the ball with ease and speed as to allow kurtley to join the backline and play as an extra 5/8 and put the wingers over. its a freaken game plan and carter works it better than most centres in the comp.

line him up against faingallalalalalala or tyronious and he is of much greater value to his individual team than either of them.

You had me nodding in agreement until that bit. The Tahs and virtually all Oz teams go better when you get away from the two playmaker system. It is not a system that has ever worked very well in any Oz team. In fact when Barnes played 12 for the Wallabies last year his positioning and play was that of a traditional 12, yes his skill bases allows him to play 10 but he led the line forward in defence etc etc as a traditional 12.

I would prefer Carter to play 12 than see a two play makers tactic again. He is on par with Tyrone and behind Finger as a 12.

There are things to like about Carter's game, as you say he has a very good kick chase, solid defence and is strong in the contact (very rarely losing the ball). That being said he is limited in his play and that makes him easy to defend against and of course his penchant for acting like a F*&^%wit on the field.

 

[Moses]

I thought Turner was more impressive at 13 with Carter inside than Cross, seemed to get the ball more and in better positions.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

i cant think of a more stupid uneducated rant than saying he is the most unskillful 12 in the country. his offloading might not be the best, but the fact is until he came into the waratahs side last year we had two playmakers and it meant absolutely nothing. He gets go forward and is excellent in contact and recycles the ball with ease and speed as to allow kurtley to join the backline and play as an extra 5/8 and put the wingers over. its a freaken game plan and carter works it better than most centres in the comp.

This is very close-

line him up against faingallalalalalala or tyronious and he is of much greater value to his individual team than either of them.

 

[Ham]

How did the others go Ham?

I didn't recognise most of the players, but they did have their different club socks on so I could at least tell where they're from. Tilse was probably the only other player I recognised. He had a couple of good runs and the scrum was competitive.

The Force were dominating the tackle area in the first half, but went off the boil in the second half. It could have been because of the heat, it was so hot I was chugging down the water just sitting in the grandstand. A highlight was having an Eastwood loosie pick up an intercept from 50-60 metres from the line, and out sprint Inman to score. They both looked pretty wrecked afterwards.

 

[nugget1]

very strong squad theyve put together

 

[I like to watch]

i cant think of a more stupid uneducated rant than saying he is the most unskillful 12 in the country. his offloading might not be the best, but the fact is until he came into the waratahs side last year we had two playmakers and it meant absolutely nothing. He gets go forward and is excellent in contact and recycles the ball with ease and speed as to allow kurtley to join the backline and play as an extra 5/8 and put the wingers over. its a freaken game plan and carter works it better than most centres in the comp.

line him up against faingallalalalalala or tyronious and he is of much greater value to his individual team than either of them.

Is it stupid to ask what skills a 12 should have?
Is he quick for a 12?
Does he have good footwork?
It is a given he has no ball skills
Does he have good vision?
Does he break tackles?
Does he have a good kicking game?
Is what you are saying that his best skill is to get tackled so his teammates can recycle it quickly, and have a backline movement without him?
He is one dimensional, steady & reliable but he is still one dimensional.

 

[I like to watch]

I thought Turner was more impressive at 13 with Carter inside than Cross, seemed to get the ball more and in better positions.

Cross was on the field with 6 or 7 bench players. Put Cross in with the starting 15 then you can compare apples with apples.I believe that Cross can do everything that TC can do plus a lot more.
time will tell.

 

[waratahjesus]

Is it stupid to ask what skills a 12 should have?
Is he quick for a 12?
Does he have good footwork?
It is a given he has no ball skills
Does he have good vision?
Does he break tackles?
Does he have a good kicking game?
Is what you are saying that his best skill is to get tackled so his teammates can recycle it quickly, and have a backline movement without him?
He is one dimensional, steady & reliable but he is still one dimensional.

and his value to the tahs is greater than fingers or smiths. the reds and brumbs can play without them without losing much, the tahs are a better team with carter int he starting side. his ability to get go forward, especially in the second half of last year when the tahs lost TPn and palu and struggled for go forward was exactly what the tahs game plan called for.

if you read my actual post, you would see i said "value to his individual team" not compared to the other two guys but said he is of greater value tot he tahs than those players to there teams. for those that line players up and say one is better than the other based on obscure cum driven vision when they are not actually lining up against the same opposition under the same conditions and far more importantly there not playing the same GAME PLAN i really dont get it. Finger has done crap all to justify being anywhere near the wallabies, smith is one dimensional but somehow talked up, he will be lucky to even start for the brumbies.

carter is the best 12 the waratahs have by a long way and the team has always been stronger with him in it. saying he doesnt offload when the game plan calls for going wide on the back of going forward and he often has the ball in little space is an absolute joke, especially when you support the worst defender in aus rugby history to have the ten jersey for the wallabies.

 

[Richard D. James]

I agree that Carter is the best 12 the 'tahs have (better than cross) but A. FInger was immensely valuable to the Reds, especially his defence.

 

[Tiger]

So are you really saying that the Tahs have no depth at 12?

 

[waratahjesus]

im saying out of every 12 in the country, carter is more valuble to the tahs than any other to there respective side.

 

[Ruggo]

im saying out of every 12 in the country, carter is more valuble to the tahs than any other to there respective side.

If they play conservative I would agree but surly with the quallity of attacking potential out wider they will look to be a bit more expansive. Honestly I think 12 is going to be the week link for the Tahs this year.

 

[Hawko]

Is it stupid to ask what skills a 12 should have?
Is he quick for a 12?
Does he have good footwork?
It is a given he has no ball skills
Does he have good vision?
Does he break tackles?
Does he have a good kicking game?
Is what you are saying that his best skill is to get tackled so his teammates can recycle it quickly, and have a backline movement without him?
He is one dimensional, steady & reliable but he is still one dimensional.

I'm not sure WJ expressed it the best way possible, but I get what he means. Within the Tah game plan, Carter's skills are a good match and a key part of getting front foot ball for the next phase. His defence is equally important. Write down a list if you can of those people who have beaten Carter pointless when he's been defending all through last year. Pretty short list hey? Not every member of your team should have Kurtley's skills. Every team needs a balance of styles and abilities. I've said already that I'd like to see Horne play 12 because he has Carter's skill set plus the ability to set up his man outside. But if you pull Horne in one place, who is our best 13 and would it weaken the team overall. Right now our best team has Carter at 12 and its pretty good because it works well for the way we want to play. If we want to crashball and suck in defenders we use Carter, if we want variation we go to Cliffy, or Mitchell on the cutback, or Kurtley running from deep, or Horne on the cutout. Having a lot of options allows the element of surprise - you never know where the point of attack is going to come from.

In one way however, I agree Fainga'a is essential for QLD. Cooper must be one of the worst defenders God ever put breath into. Ant's defense provides some level of cover to the QLD black hole. In that sense, and only in that sense, Fainga'a is more essential to QLD than Carter is to NSW. Strangely, if Carter was playing for QLD he'd carry out the same role just as well.

At Super level, and within the Tah gameplan, Carter is widely underestimated and is a very valuable member of the squad. I don't think he's Wallaby material but Ant Fainga'a isn't either and hasn't yet shown the skillset that step up would require. Deans misfired badly when he tried Fainga'a out there and it was clear for all to see. Maybe in a year or two; we'll see if he can grow into it.

 

[Moses]

Fainga'a is immensely important to the Reds, though if Quade starts making tackles he will be less so.

Edit: Hawko just said that, but in so much nicer a way

 

[RugbyReg]

I reckon if he ends up at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) is more important to the 4s than any other Oz 12.

I also reckon that if Carter was so valuable to the Tahs, why is he no certain selection?

 

[Ruggo]

Deans misfired playing Anthony Fainga'a a position wider than he had played all year. Fainga'a is a good foil for Cooper with his straight running but does Barnes need that? Fainga'a has the ability to serve the men wider than him as demonstrated last year and this ability has been the gripe about Carter. As far as Coopers defence goes, don't forget Hynes covered just as much as Fainga'a did. It is not the only justification for Fainga'a's selection.

 

[waratahjesus]

If they play conservative I would agree but surly with the quallity of attacking potential out wider they will look to be a bit more expansive. Honestly I think 12 is going to be the week link for the Tahs this year.

i find this to be a misconception. based on last year and mentioned above the team is much more expansive with carter at 12 than they were with berrick there.

as far as i see it, carter crash balls, his strength is advantage line and strength in the tackle allowing for quick ball. they usually use this when there positioned in the middle of the field and it is usually followed up by berrick tacking one side of the ruck and kurtley running a deep line behind it and choosing a side at the last minute either linking with berrick or acting as a five running onto the ball on the opposite side.

it allows front foot play and keeps the defenders guessing, it also feeds the backs extremely well and allows for expansive play.

they dont throw the ball around like queensland cos they dont have to, the tahs play alot more percentage football and that can be called "conservative" but if it was called "super awesome winning football" it would probably sound alot better.

the fact still remains that carters move back to the starting team last year led to alot more attacking football.

 

[waratahjesus]

I reckon if he ends up at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) is more important to the 4s than any other Oz 12.

I also reckon that if Carter was so valuable to the Tahs, why is he no certain selection?

he is no certain selection cos the coach is put under pressure to play misconcived rugby.

i dont think JOC (James O'Connor) has a permanant position, gossip over west is he is going to play fullback, either way, its time to pick a spot and stay there for him to prevent him becoming a supersub.