Waratahs 2011

[Newb]

He looks to me as though he does not really enjoy the physical side of the game. A big handicap for a scrummie in particular, but not a good quality for any rugby player.

*cough* quade *cough*

 

[wamberal]

*cough* quade *cough*

Quade's strengths tend to make up for his weaknesses, wouldn't you say? Holmes has few strengths.

 

[Burke's Boot]

Sheehan at 10! How did that go?

Not McKibbin because he was promoted to a full contract for two years. Therefore Holmes who has been a huge disappointment since his school days and accepted pay cut when he returned to the Tahs for 2010 and 2011.

At club level in 2010 he played some good rugby for the Rats at scrummie with Sheehan at 10. His sniping from the base of the scrum or ruck for tries, especially later in the game, left several opponents with red faces. And in 2009 he played some rousing games at 12.

I wrote earlier in this thread that the promotion of McKibbin for a 2 year deal may see the marginalisation of Holmes. If Hart, somebody who couldn't get a gig in a Kiwi Super team this year, is indeed in the stable, then Josh had better start mailing some DVDs to the NH and cut out the bits where he gazes at the ball, if he can find any.

 

[Lee Grant]

I regret to say that he just does not have what it takes. I really knew this when he was totally dominated by Luke Burgess in a club game a few years ago when Burgess was with the Beasts.

I remember that game; the contrast between the two was stark. I am not so worried about his lack of physicality but more about his general doziness at the base of the ruck or scrum. He has strengths such as speed off the mark and a knack of backing up players just in time, but his languidness when urgency is needed is frustrating.

 

[Gnostic]

I remember that game; the contrast between the two was stark. I am not so worried about his lack of physicality but more about his general doziness at the base of the ruck or scrum. He has strengths such as speed off the mark and a knack of backing up players just in time, but his languidness when urgency is needed is frustrating.

I have never been that fussed on him at 9. AT 12 that slowness in decision making and action at the base of the ruck is not an issue. Technically he is a very good defender and combined with his passing and running he does make a good 12. I am surpised the Rats didn't move him there much earlier, Sheehan is a better 9 by far.

 

[#1 Tah]

Why would we want another scrummie? If anything we need to sign another hooker.

 

[en_force_er]

Why would we want another scrummie? If anything we need to sign another hooker.

Uglia is theoretically your 3rd hooker and he never disgraced himself at Super level.

He certainly is cut from an extremely different mold to Polota Nau and Fitzpatick but he is fine, covers prop too.

 

[Rob42]

Honestly, it sends a shiver down your spine to find out what some of these guys get up to in their off season...

http://www.alastairbaxter.com/2011/01/a-sustainable-vision-for-greater-western-sydney/#more

 

[Ruggo]

That is a bloody great read.

 

[TOCC]

He hasnt been signed by the Tahs yet... they better be quick, the Force might be looking to replace Turner

Waratahs coach Chris Hickey, meanwhile, intends keeping a close eye on the progress of former NZ under-20 halfback Grayson Hart, the 22-year-old nephew of former All Blacks coach John Hart, who arrived in Sydney last week to play Shute Shield for Southern Districts.

Hickey denied Hart, who played seven Super rugby games for the Blues in 2009, had been recruited by the Waratahs even though he had contacted NSW officials to alert them he was moving to Sydney.

"But he'll definitely be a player of interest to us," said Hickey.

Hart's stint with the New Zealand under-20 side does not disqualify him from one day playing for Australia.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...rtlock-his-debut/story-e6frg7o6-1225993879939

 

[Lee Grant]

Hickey's comments made more sense than the prior natural assumption that the Tahs were looking for another scrummie.

Hart is a pretty good player as I remember him from the ITM and Super14 but not a standout, as a couple of others from his U/20 team became as seniors: Sam Whitelock and Zac Guilford. [Incidentally Mike Harris, now of the Reds, was in that same U/20 team and he also played with Hart in the 2010 North Harbour ITM side.]

The big scrummie will be playing for Southern Districts this year and when he does all the Super clip board men will be running their eyes over him. Of course he will be of interest to the Tahs, as Hickey said, but if Burgess stays after the RWC it is likely that the interest will wane. McKibbin is already signed for 2011 and 2012.

 

[fatprop]

He hasnt been signed by the Tahs yet... they better be quick, the Force might be looking to replace Turner

Southern are still recruiting, does anyone know if Nathan Sievert is still with them? I have always thought he was pretty good

 

[observer]

Hart was again training with the Waratah Academy yesterday in full Waratah uniform. Go figure!

 

[TOCC]

Probably similar to how the Reds had the 'wider training group' last year, give the players some training kit, access to the facilities and bring them into training 'to test there value' or alternatively get a professional player for free

 

[Lee Grant]

.......alternatively get a professional player for free

Just as well Bruce hasn't seen this yet - but I know what you mean.

Sheehan at 10! How did that go?

Sorry, missed this question before.

He was surprisingly good, though we are talking about the club level naturally. And again, at that level, Holmes was stealing tries with snipes playing scrummie. Be warned that my sample of watching them play together in those positions was not a big one but what I saw looked good enough for club footie. It certainly wasn't the reason for the Rats ordinary year.

Scuttlebutt had it that Sheehan wasn't best pleased with the arrangement, but he is nearer the end of his career than the beginning, and such a bit of versatility would look good on a CV if he is thinking about going offshore.

You'd think with Holmes rugby attributes, and earlier proof that he had played 12 with the Rats with some merit, that the roles of 9 and 10 would have been reversed but it was not the case.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Just as well Bruce hasn't seen this yet - but I know what you mean.

Am I that transparent, LG? My blood boils at the thought of the franchises locking kids into their so called "Academies" on $1500 a year contracts.

Still worse is this practice of creating a "wider training group", "giv[ing] the players some training kit, access to the facilities and bring[ing] them into training 'to test their value'".

Expecting kids to relocate at their own expense on the basis of snake oil salesman persuasion and lies about being passed over for professional rugby if they don't agree is a disgrace to our code.

 

[TOCC]

Am I that transparent, LG? My blood boils at the thought of the franchises locking kids into their so called "Academies" on $1500 a year contracts.

Still worse is this practice of creating a "wider training group", "giv[ing] the players some training kit, access to the facilities and bring[ing] them into training 'to test their value'".

Expecting kids to relocate at their own expense on the basis of snake oil salesman persuasion and lies about being passed over for professional rugby if they don't agree is a disgrace to our code.

alternatively some players see it as a fantastic opportunity to develop there skills in a environment conducive with what they are trying to achieve

 

[Hawko]

Its all a question of how lucky you are and how unlucky others are. Douglas got a shot last year because others got injured/sick. If two scrummies get injured then Hart gets serious bench/replacement time. But Robinson got zero time for years because Waugh didn't get injured much.

I often wonder how many Horans and Eales there are out there who just didn't get lucky enough before the demands of job and family closed off the possibility of a professional career.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Exactly! I for one could have been the next Ewan McKenzie, but that was before my wife got her claws into me.




Also I lacked talent and commitment.

 

[Lee Grant]

The odds are greatly against the kids, and I'm sure that they know it. Bruce mentioned a figure of $1,500 but topo mentioned last year that the JW "professionals" got $5,000, but maybe that was the maximum. As lily reported last year some players don't accept the offer of a pro academy spot because they need a real job, and it certainly rings true.

Then there's others who don't get paid anything. Conventional wisdom would have it that if they weren't good enough to be approached by a Super team for a pro academy (now called by the Tahs "Super Rugby Training Group") spot that they are wasting their time, but you can't blame them for pursuing a dream. Besides they can learn a lot to take back for their club games.

The blow ins from overseas are the ones we have to take stock of if they are serious about living in Oz. If Graydon Hart is good enough to play Super rugby for the Blues we can't afford to turn up our noses at him. Nor as a rugby country struggling for depth, can we ignore the merits of prop Ruan Smith who has played for 2007 Oz A Schools, 2008 South African Schools, 2009 WP U/19, and 2010 WP U/21 teams. He turned 21 yesterday, is now back in Australia, and showed up at the Rebels.

Bruce
I thought you might have taken issue with TOCC's contention that anybody could get a professional for free when, in that case, they would be amateurs.