en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
If Foley is on the Cent coast maybe Gosford could get a Shute Shield team together, hmm.
Waratahs 2011
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Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
The danger with Cross and Horne both in the centres is that Beale and co would never see the ball. I would hate to see a frustrated and bored Shmoo get Tuqiried. Personally, I would prefer to see Hangers at 10 and Barnes at 12 although I'm sure Deans will be whispering in Hickey's ear to keep Barnes at 10 in preparation for the WC.
Per Growden, Beale has been running at 10 in a dirt trackers type squad at training. I'm not sure what to think of that.
Thats a very good point PT. Actually have always wondered what Schmoo would be like at 13 now that he has bulked up a bit- he's quick, strong, direct. His defence has improved out of sight since a few years ago. I wouldn't start him there in an S15 game but he certainly has the attributes for it.
I don't know, PT. I reckon Horne is not too bad - he can offload and distribute, but he needs a lengthy stretch uninjured to get settled and confident I think. They have to keep Cross from going too lateral though - a tendency of his, and as we know with the Crab, a backline killer.
T
TOCC
Guest
I like the idea of the extra playmaker at fullback, its a concept that NRL and Wayne Bennet has used for years when he previously had Darren Lockyer at fullback and then Karmichael Hunt. They have there set playmaker at 5/8 and then the second playmaker at fullback, it makes the attack just that little bit more variable by providing options.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Two years ago Beale almost won the final for us away against the Crusaders playing at 10. Last year a couple of average games early in a backline that was not using a plan that used Beale's skills saw him ousted and not make it back until the last three away rounds playing at 12. Deans then picked Beale for the EOYT and lots of contributors said he was a waste of space. Then Deans picked him on the wing and everybody howled with derision. Slowest winger in international rugby they said. Beale promptly proved Deans right and the doubters wrong. This year Beale got a couple of games at 12 and then got sent to Coventry till the last four rounds. Anesi was first choice 15 for the first nine or ten rounds despite contributing nothing each and every week he played. Finally Hickey gave Beale a run and he showed how classy he was.
Deans picked Beale when people were openly dismissive of him and in positions others thought were ridiculous. He had seen how good Beale could be (remember he was the opposition coach when Beale played in the final at 10). Hickey has demoted Beale at the first opportunity two seasons in a row and brought him back only at the last minute when it was obvious he should have weeks earlier. That's why I give credit to Deans where its due. He might have made lots of errors as head coach, but promoting Beale through the ranks has not been one of them. Hickey's done his best to push Beale down, but cream always rises to the top.
That's the rationale behind my post.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
I'd like to see Horne get some time at 12, I think he would bring some of Carters direct running and good tackling plus he has a much better skillset passing and angle running. He played a lot of 12 as a schoolie, I think. But we are very light on for good 13's, so unless BKH steps up quickly thats probably a pipedream till 2012. Cross was very good at 12 for the Force but really lousy at 13 in Shute and Carter was bad at 13 too. So I like the idea of playing Cross at 12 and Horne at 13 and then have them interchanging during the game to disrupt the opposition defence. If Cross goes to custard then Carter comes straight in and although he has limitations, he will always give 100%.
Even if Barnes gets a go at 12 for the Wallabies and makes a success of it, which I hope happens, I still would play Barnes at 10 and have Hangers as back-up for the Tahs. That's a very good backline and will cut a lot of teams to pieces. The best backline they will face will be the Reds and I fancy they will shut them down right across the park, leaving the superior Tah forwards to bring home the bacon.
If barbarians odds are real then people should put some money on them for at least a finals place. Good lineout, second best scrum, Cliffy Palu and some real mongrel in the loose means the forwards will get over most teams and I fancy that backline defensively plus you have Beale, Horne, Mitchell and Turner to make the breaks. We'll do better than seventh.
R
Red Rooster
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Well argued Hawko. Link signed Beale from school and used him at 10 in 07 and 08 - They made the final with him at 10 for the whole season. Deans has also used him well at fullback and other positions. Bottom line is the kid is good but the Tahs could not see it - hope he goes well and gets another go at 10
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Obviously they could see it to sign and start him at such a young age!
topo
Cyril Towers (30)
I don't care where they play him. Just play him.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
RR, Beale will never suit Hickey @ 10.
When you play a conservative game (and as a consequence do not score a lot of tries), you cannot leak 2 tries a game in the 10 channel.
Everyone is raving about Gilbert's improved defence. I am not yet convinced, and believe most of it is due to the change in position.
He is playing great @ 15, why move him?
When you play a conservative game (and as a consequence do not score a lot of tries), you cannot leak 2 tries a game in the 10 channel.
Everyone is raving about Gilbert's improved defence. I am not yet convinced, and believe most of it is due to the change in position.
He is playing great @ 15, why move him?
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
I would just like to see Horne get some consistant time on the park. I do like the thought of him as a twelve but I think first priority is to get him back on the paddock in a consistant basis. When that happens I think the switch should be made.
Given the way the two sides are shaping up on paper, the Tahs vs Reds clash in round two is shaping up to be a cracker. I can't wait.
Don't jack Beale around any more. He has found his niche at 15 so leave him there for the sake of consistancy.
Given the way the two sides are shaping up on paper, the Tahs vs Reds clash in round two is shaping up to be a cracker. I can't wait.
Don't jack Beale around any more. He has found his niche at 15 so leave him there for the sake of consistancy.
I prefer having Beale being able to find opportunities from 15.
He reads the game so well and can pop up where he sees the opportunity.
I tend to agree that his defense is better from 15, his decision making is good and he is getting the job done.
In the line he gets more concerned with the next play or trying to make a big play (by stripping the ball) instead of making the tackle, something Quade is afflicted with as well.
He reads the game so well and can pop up where he sees the opportunity.
I tend to agree that his defense is better from 15, his decision making is good and he is getting the job done.
In the line he gets more concerned with the next play or trying to make a big play (by stripping the ball) instead of making the tackle, something Quade is afflicted with as well.
inthestands
Sydney Middleton (9)
I'm not saying the decisions were correct from the outset, and in 2009 Hickey was also in the situtation of trying to get Timana to his potential when he was playing like a dog, making massive defensive misreads and didn't come good until he got a crack at 13 when Horne was injured.
But don't forget Beale wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at the start of 2009 either. He was great in '08 on the way to the final, got injured and didn't have the off-season he should have. He got dropped on form, and Halangahu played well enough to keep his spot for the rest of the year at No.10.
In terms of Anesi and the 2010 fullback role, he only started the first six games; Beale started at fullback for eight, not four. And Anesi wasn't doing anything 'wrong'. In fact, defensively he was great and under the high ball is very strong... he just didn't have the line-breaking power to have an attacking impact which is what they found with KB (Kurtley Beale). That's when the Tahs back three sparked up a bit and hopefully will again.
If anything, it's something to be positive about, and maybe with Bowen in there now we can expect more of the same.
Liked a comment Andrew Slack said at the John Eales Medal about how the Wallabies weren't the best team at the moment, but no one has played better Rugby. That's definitely my feel with NSW in all games. When they're on fire in attack, like the Lions, Hurricanes and Chiefs games, they're simply brilliant. When a game needs to be muscled out with composure and defence, like the Brumbies and Force games, they can do it. Unfortunately the consistency of playing like that is not where it is for the Bulls and Crusaders at the moment.
I watched KB (Kurtley Beale) play in a schoolboys test where he was superb at 10, but when Quade came on off the bench KB (Kurtley Beale) then ran at fullback and LOVED the wide passes from Cooper.
Then in the first ARC game for the Western Rams he actually started at fullback, played the rest of the season at flyhalf however.
Then in the first ARC game for the Western Rams he actually started at fullback, played the rest of the season at flyhalf however.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Mitchell has played 13 for around 2/3 of a season (I think, or a bit less) at the Reds as a youngster - was actually his first regular starting position in Super rugby, I think. Went pretty well, too. If you're wondering why, it was because the Reds were injury riddled, as they tended to be every year back then.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
An excellent couple of posts Hawko.
:horne:Horne played 13 in U/16s and probably throughout all his school years, excepting when CHS and NSW Schools moved him to 12. Most likely this was to accommodate other specialist outside centres: Rowan Kellam, Cameron Mitchell and Tim Bennetts, in the 2 year period. Clearly coaches recognised a skill set that tagged him as being better able to play 12 than the other guys.
Having seen him play 12 in the national schools tournament those two years I can endorse your remarks. What most fans wouldn't realise is that he has a good ball playing ability, enhanced by opponents knowing about his direct running which stops them drifting. He passed close to the tackle line too. IIRR he stepped more in the position and I definitely remember a few sneaky tactical kicks.
That was in his school days though, 3 and 4 years ago. He played at least one game at 12 for SD this season, versus Manly, and I'd like to see Hickey plan to use him there for parts of games to see how he goes. The trouble is that the Tahs are not exactly short of folks who can play inside centre.
:beale:I think you're wrong there, though not that you're not convinced; since you are the sole judge. But if you can hark back to his goal line defence this year you may recall that he had been staunch, and it had nothing to do with what number he had on his back. You may recall also that he put his shoulder into that big Kiwi lock who was in full flight and stopped him cold in the Bledisloe. It was as a fullback, of course - but it was much the same kind of tackle completion that you have to perform in the flyhalf channel when backrowers come at you from the scrum with ball in hand and a grin on the dial.
I've mentioned before that I have noticed an improvement in KB (Kurtley Beale)'s defence since the Tahs' tour of the RSA in 2009 and I think I'm right.
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