Waratahs 2010

[waratahjesus]

Today's Australian carries a most extraordinary article by Bret Harris titled "Waratahs to try Phil Waugh at No 8".

Apparently coach Chris Hickey proposes switching positions in the scrum between Phil Waugh and Wycliff Palu "in different situations on the field." Fair enough, but it is his justification for doing so that casts grave doubt on his fitness to be coaching the team I support:

"Sometimes you actually get away from eight because you are not pushing, whereas when you are on the side of the scrum your first job is to push."

Please tell me he didn’t say that. Or at least that his scrum coach Michael Foley doesn’t subscribe to such nonsense.

At eight "you are not pushing"?? No wonder Australian scrums have been such a laughing stock if the 8 is told not to bother pushing. The ‘Tahs finally get a dominant scrum and the coach wants to depower it.

Who is supposed to maintain the shape of the scrum and control the wheeling tendency if the bloke at the back is just leaning on the scrum, Jone Tawake style?

"On the side of the scrum your first job is to push." Does anyone at the ‘Tahs know the first thing about biomechanics and the application of force? On the side you are pushing with one shoulder from a body position where you cannot possibly deliver effective force straight ahead. Compare that to the 8 where both shoulders are engaged and the natural force direction is through the centre line of the scrum. Think barbell squat.

Hickey then goes on to say: "Playing the seven in the No 8 position can release him quicker. He (Waugh) loves to get his hands on the ball. It suits him." But even if this were true, the only way that Waugh could get to the ball carrier quicker from 8 than from 7 is if he is defending behind the advantage line.

is he talking about in attack or defence though? what are the different situations? until you define those, commenting on his comment is useless.

 

[Lee Grant]

Settle, Lee. You were obviously feeling left out because this particular discussion gave you no opportunity to display your encyclopaedic knowledge of every rugby player who ever laced a boot on.

I got sledged by Bruce - good on you mate. Keep 'em coming.

Actually I didn't feel very knowledgeable on Saturday night as I had troubled identifying the players.

Great news - Robbie Horne is playing next Saturday - but for the Junior Waratahs:

BRUMBY RUNNERS V HSBC JUNIOR WARATAHS
Saturday 13 February 2010 (Kick-off 3:00pm AEDT)
Viking Park, Wanniassa ACT

HSBC JUNIOR WARATAHS
15. Adam D'Arcy (Manly)
14. Nemani Nadolo (Manly)
13. Rob Horne (Southern Districts)
12. Tom Azar (Eastern Suburbs)
11. Peter Betham (Sydney University)
10. Ben Seymour (Manly)
9. Brendan McKibbin [vc] (Eastern Suburbs)
8. Locky McCaffrey (Eastwood)
7. Chris Alcock (Gordon)
6. Dave Dennis (Sydney University)
5. Hendrik Roodt (Gordon)
4. Chris Thomson [c] (Warringah)
3. Dan Palmer (Southern Districts)
2. Ben Roberts (Sydney University)
1. Jeremy Tilse (Sydney University)

Reserves
16. Sam Roberson (Sydney University)
17. Ofa Fainga'anuku (Eastern Suburbs)
18. Paddy Ryan (Sydney University)
19. Dylan Sigg (Manly)
20. Ben Coridas (Eastwood)
21. Hugh Perrett (Eastwood)
22. Eddie Bredenhann (Sydney University)
23. Harry Bennett (Eastern Suburbs)
24. Alex Rokobaro (Sydney University)
25. Cam Mitchell (Eastwood)
26. Jacob Woodhouse (Sydney University)

That's a handy no. 2 team.

The inclusion of S14 contracted 2nd rowers Thomson and Roodt in the Twos underlines the emergence of Kane Douglas who was selected on the Tahs bench for Rd.1 of the Super14.

I wouldn't write Roodt off at this stage. He looked like a physical player in his short stint last week and these JW games will be great for him to get back to speed. But I don't think we will see a lot of Thomson in the S14. He was lethargic on Saturday night against the Oz Barbarians.

It's a pity that the expense of travel and accommodation prohibits the inclusion of the Force Twos in these games because it's just what their young players need.

 

[Scarfman]

Wow! That's an unbelievable team. Bring on Crusaders No.2 and we'll see who's got depth.

 

[RugbyReg]

yeah, that's a pretty damn good team.

Thomson as skipper. interesting.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Marvellous, isn't it? On a day when the sun is shining, the birds are tweet-tweeting their heads off, Tommy's in his Heaven, all's right with the world; on this day of all days, wj decides to turn on me:

is he talking about in attack or defence though? what are the different situations? until you define those, commenting on his comment is useless.

Who gives a bugger whether it's attack or defence; on every scrum the No. 8 should be pushing until his piles burst.

I had assumed, wj, because you are so much better a judge of a footballer than most of those on this forum, that you must have been an ex-prop; but I'm beginning to suspect that you may be an impostor. You've probably never had the exquisite pleasure of having your head shoved up your fundamental orifice.

Instead of getting legless with you I will go off and celebrate the Ascension of Carter on my own.

 

[Joey Johns]

Excuse my french, but Hickey is a fucking idiot. Its so much faster to get to the ball off the scrum on the flank than number 8. If you're on the flank, you've got half the side of your body barely attached and pushing forward. Once the balls out, you're pushing forward acts similar to a rubber band, and enables you to take off faster much faster.

You can't honestly tell me that you'll get there faster at 8 when you're heads between two fat asses and you have to take a step back, and start the run from scratch. Lets not forget the metre head start the flanker gets as well.

 

[Bruce Ross]

There you go; even a Leaguie understands the dynamics of back row play.

 

[Lee Grant]

I will go off and celebrate the Ascension of Carter on my own.

Ah - a religious man. Let's all hope that Tom does well so we can give him a few offerings.

I don't know a lot about scrummaging since I was a flanker with no respect for the rumoured offside law, but it has been my watching experience that any scrum which does not have an 8 man push can't hope for dominance. All that should be directed forward unless you're doing the bajaga, though the flanker on the TH side should stabilise his THP.

JJ

Getting the ball out of the scrum near the LH flanker is quick, and fine when you want to attack on that side and you''ve got a bit of L shoulder, but the scrummie often gets ball and opposing scrummie at the same time. In that respect it's better on the TH flankers side but that is too dicey to contemplate as a regular event. Therefore ball to the no. 8 is most common especially when you have a big boofhead like Cliffy Palu or Nick Easter picking it up.

But if you have a crap scrum, ball from the no.1 channel is good value as we Aussies appreciated for a while in the bad old days.

 

[Joey Johns]

JJ

Getting the ball out of the scrum near the LH flanker is quick, and fine when you want to attack on that side and you''ve got a bit of L shoulder, but the scrummie often gets ball and opposing scrummie at the same time. In that respect it's better on the TH flankers side but that is too dicey to contemplate as a regular event. Therefore ball to the no. 8 is most common especially when you have a big boofhead like Cliffy Palu or Nick Easter picking it up.

But if you have a crap scrum, ball from the no.1 channel is good value as we Aussies appreciated for a while in the bad old days.

I wasn't talking about the scrumhalf, I was talking about first phase ball from the scrum. How is it easier for Waugh to "get his hands on the ball" at 8 then it is at 7? Unless of course he wants Waugh at the back in Offensive scrums, which is.. ballsy to say the least as you normally want a big fella to pick up and hold his feet if your scrum goes to shits.

 

[Lee Grant]

I was just bored Joey. People often write things on rugby forums that had nothing to do with what somebody else said, even if they mention them by name.

Drives me crazy when people do it to me though.

 

[Blue]

There you go; even a Leaguie understands the dynamics of back row play.

Do you think he runs seminars for us poor rugby folk, or is it not his "line" of work? O0

 

[Joey Johns]

I'm not a leaguie, it's just always been my online nickname. I've been playing Union all my life, still play

 

[Bruce Ross]

I'm not a leaguie, it's just always been my online nickname. I've been playing Union all my life, still play

Sorry, Joey, I just couldn't resist the opportunity.

 

[DPK]

on a sort of JJ related note, i remember my old man saying that JJ would have been the greatest union half and that gregan would have been the greatest league half. but i digress.

any word on who will be goal kicking for the waratahs?

 

[Scarfman]

Got to be Barnes, doesn't it?

Beale will appreciate not having the extra pressure.

 

[DPK]

well beale, barnes and halangahu can kick, but none of them are exactly perfect kickers. I suppose they might decide who will kick based on where the kick is, who is on the field and, being backs, how theyre feeling.

 

[Lee Grant]

None of them are very good. It's been a Tah weakness since Hewat left and he wasn't so hot in his last year either.

If D'Arcy plays up a storm in the JW games expect him to be nudged onto the Tahs bench as a 1st step.

 

[DPK]

i remember being at a norths game that beale was playing at and he missed a conversion from right in front, about 20 metres out. it wasnt that he missed.... it was that he kicked it under the crossbar that was shocking.

 

[Lee Grant]

i remember being at a norths game that beale was playing at and he missed a conversion from right in front, about 20 metres out. it wasnt that he missed.... it was that he kicked it under the crossbar that was shocking.

Yeah - he's hot and cold and on the cold side. Wasn't great at school either. He has his moments: converting a try from touch in Perth won the game in retrospect 2 years ago because then they needed a try to win, and doing the same later in the same season to make a draw in the rain against the Stormers possible.

Barnes' conversion of the Waugh try on Thursday night was about 30 degrees out and Halangahu is not much better than the other two and doesn't have a long kick.

It's the biggest weakness of the Tahs. They have won a lot of games since Hewat's good year despite it but one of these years they are going to lose a lot of games because of it.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Didn't Turner put up his hand sometime or other for kicking duties? Is he any good?