Waratahs 2010

[Scotty]

The calls for Hickeys axing are ridiculous considering it is week two and the Tahs have won 1 from 2 away games.

However, the stats showing Hickey as the winnest coach are slightly mislead, as you could easily argue he has had the best player group to work with of any Tah coach. Particularly in the forwards.

 

[TheRiddler]

Let's put things into perspective.

Naza, I enjoy and, dare I say, agree with a lot of your posts. However, perhaps it is you that needs a bit of perspective here. Whilst stats can tell one story, reality may give a different picture.

1. Hickey's top-of-the-class performance comes of a very low base in comparison to some of the other on that list.
2. I was at Brisbane could see the rabble that wasnt perhaps so clear on the TV coverage.
3. The Stormers game was truly appalling. Lack of game plan, discipline, running lines, speed, structure, some very strange substitutions. Too much unwarranted niggle, blaming everyone and everything else, pedestrian pace, crap service, mistakes. The old excuse of "being on the road" simply doesnt wash any more. These are professional sportsmen whose diets, training, travel, accommodation etc is micro-managed.
4. Hickey's first year in charge delivered nothing. Zilch. Nada. Wait, I'm telling a lie. He delivered NSW Rugby a huge drop in revenue by playing rugby that was boring, unimaginative and ugly to watch. That meant the crowds stayed away. I have been a life member and season ticket holder for the best part of 10 years and the level of frustration and dissatisfaction from those around me - all committed, seasoned and hardened followers - was the worst I have known, even in the darkest days of Link's tenure.
5. The one positive from lat year, our forward play, now seems to be going backwards at a rate directly inverse to the speed of a Burgess ruck clearance.

And Lindommer, I'm surprised at you. Of course we want to start the season well - and with good coaching and structure also finish it well. You say there are lots of combinations to be sorted. Bollocks! What the fuck do these guys do all week at training? As mentioned above, they are also professional sportsmen, most of whom have played at senior levels for a couple of years at least. Rugby is an art. It is a passion. Good players thrive on instinct and knowing where a play should be and where a ball should be delivered. There was one phase from the Stormers towards the end of the game where the half popped an inside ball back off the ruck and Habana hit the hole at a million miles an hour. Whilst he knocked on, he was able to create the opportunity from good structured play and instinct. He wasnt bitching about how he was a new player and hadnt learnt the combinations.

Those of you that think this is all suddenly going to click and fix itself, particular when the Tahs come and play their first game against Sharks, are kidding yourselves.

I hope that in a couple of months time you can all deride me for this post when the Tahs have taken out the S14 title by winning 11 straight games in entertaining, spirited fashion, 4-try bonus points galore and a defensive record that is second to none. I somehow doubt it and am more likely to believe that next season, a certain M Cheika will be the Tahs coach leaving C Hickey free to wander around TG Milner field where he belongs.

 

[fatprop]

Oh, hello, looks like the sooks are out in force today. And knives out for the coach already. Its almost as predictable as the Tahs attack !

Hickey is the winningest Tahs Super rugby coach
http://www.nswrugby.com.au/HSBCWara...lestones/CoachingRecords/CoachingRecords.aspx

NSW Super Rugby Coaches 1996-2010
Name Span Matches as Coach Won Lost Drawn Win %
Chris Hawkins 1996 11 5 6 0 45.45
Matt Williams 1997-1999 33 14 17 2 42.42
Ian Kennedy 2000 11 5 6 0 45.45
Bob Dwyer 2001-2003 34 19 15 0 55.88
Ewen McKenzie 2004-2008 66 37 27 2 56.06
Chris Hickey 2009-2010 15 10 5 0 66.66
Totals 170 90 76 4 52.94

We need to improve our intensity & focus. Normally we start off the season on a flyer and fade towards the end. We're 1 for 2 on the road. Let's put things into perspective.

My concern is the lack of attitude and speed of thought.

They were just pedestrian and played dumb rugby.

I would be sacking the attack coach, his lack of ability is highlighted by the lack of skills improvement at the Wallabies and now Tahs under Wisemantel no attack. No structure, just no idea.

 

[naza]

Let's put things into perspective.

Naza, I enjoy and, dare I say, agree with a lot of your posts. However, perhaps it is you that needs a bit of perspective here. Whilst stats can tell one story, reality may give a different picture.

Oh by no means am I delighted by what I'm seeing. Their play is going down an all too familiar path which is indeed why folks on here are worried, just 2 games in.

I hope that in a couple of months time you can all deride me for this post when the Tahs have taken out the S14 title by winning 11 straight games in entertaining, spirited fashion, 4-try bonus points galore and a defensive record that is second to none. I somehow doubt it and am more likely to believe that next season, a certain M Cheika will be the Tahs coach leaving C Hickey free to wander around TG Milner field where he belongs.

With expectations like that, who'd want to be Tahs coach ?

 

[cyclopath]

Last year I was more of the "The cattle are OK, they just need to be coached better" opinion. However, I think the retardedness with regard to attack has become entrenched, and nobody can get this backline to execute properly. I don't understand why it would be so. Individually, there are skills there. As a group, they are way less than their sum.
Hickey may, or may not be limited, but the problem goes beyong there, I'm afraid.
God, I just realised I agreed with naza in some way. It feels strangely liberating! :lmao:
The Tahs might need to reach the bottom, like the Reds, to find an exciting way up, as the Reds have shown of late. :nta:

 

[naza]

Hickey may, or may not be limited, but the problem goes beyong there, I'm afraid.
God, I just realised I agreed with naza in some way. It feels strangely liberating! :lmao:

I'm proud of you old boy ! Next time someone tries to tell you about the Tahs' backline talent, just remember Kurtley Beale is the next Sam Harris.

 

[Lindommer]

Last year I was more of the "The cattle are OK, they just need to be coached better" opinion. However, I think the retardedness with regard to attack has become entrenched, and nobody can get this backline to execute properly.

I betcha Todd Louden could.

 

[naza]

Last year I was more of the "The cattle are OK, they just need to be coached better" opinion. However, I think the retardedness with regard to attack has become entrenched, and nobody can get this backline to execute properly.

I betcha Todd Louden could.

But he didn't, did he ?

 

[fatprop]

Yeah the Stormers should have been rewarded more as well

 

[TheRiddler]

Forgot to add that the Tahs still seemed obsessed with the midfield bomb and kicking away possession in an attempt to gain field position. An average idea when you have half-decent chasers. A terrible one when you dont have any chasers! May have worked for Eastwood in the Shute Shield Chris but you're playing with the big boys now.

 

[waratahjesus]

i dont actually think there that bad.
the thing that lets them down and its the same as last year laready is execution. In every game last year they bombed a couple of trys that are the difference between "boring" rugby and "exciting" rugby. Turner bombed against the reds last week, if he gets it the game goes in a different direction.

i think hicky got the job being last man standing but the fact is, it has to be the skills and attacking coach thats causing problems.

if you look at the brumbies, they havnt played any better, they were woefull in attack agains the force, they should have put 50 on them but there midfield was a shambles and they were agains a step off the pace against the bulls.

time will tell, i think Ben Robinson is being better nullified by the opposition, and losing Mumm for a couple of games was always going to hurt, he is criminally underrated still for his contributions. but they do have alot of home games in the back end of the season and will only get better from here on in, way to early to be writing them off, its not the force!

 

[Spook]

iif you look at the brumbies, they havnt played any better

:

 

[naza]

i think hicky got the job being last man standing but the fact is, it has to be the skills and attacking coach thats causing problems.

None of you guys would make good detectives.

We've changed head coaches = style remains the same
We've changed assistant coaches = style remains the same

 

[louie]

if you look at the brumbies, they havnt played any better, they were woefull in attack agains the force, they should have put 50 on them but there midfield was a shambles and they were agains a step off the pace against the bulls.

bullshit they were leading at halftime. And should have been by more if it wasn't for that dumb ref making the worst call of year so far.
Tahs had nothing against the stormers.

 

[waratahjesus]

if you look at the brumbies, they havnt played any better, they were woefull in attack agains the force, they should have put 50 on them but there midfield was a shambles and they were agains a step off the pace against the bulls.

bullshit they were leading at halftime. And should have been by more if it wasn't for that dumb ref making the worst call of year so far.
Tahs had nothing against the stormers.

if you read what i said, you will realise i didnt say they didnt score, i said they should have scored twice as many. there midfield was trully unorganised, a hooker scoring a try on the wing to wrap up the game with ten to go doesnt make it a great outing.

 

[Gagger]

I've moved the rule discussion to here http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/index.php?topic=9891.0;all

 

[CanadianRugby]

None of you guys would make good detectives.

We've changed head coaches = style remains the same
We've changed assistant coaches = style remains the same


[/qote]

So then what's wrong? Something weird is definately going on in 'Tah land. I went back and a few weeks ago (in anticpation of the start of the season) and watched some of the games from the beginning of last year. The difference is amazing. There was quick ball, there were free running backs, it was a different team. Now everyone looks like their in a straight jacket. The sign players like Barnes, Mitchell etc... that makes it look like they want a running team, but keep kicking. Is Hickey being ordered to sign players he can't fulfil his game plan? Why put Beale at 12 if you are going to kick bombs. Carter is better at chasing from 12. The teams seems lost and unmotivated. The talent is there, but they don't seem to be using it.

So sum up my tangled mess of a post: I blame Hickey.

 

[PhucNgo]

The calls for Hickeys axing are ridiculous considering it is week two and the Tahs have won 1 from 2 away games.

However, the stats showing Hickey as the winnest coach are slightly mislead, as you could easily argue he has had the best player group to work with of any Tah coach. Particularly in the forwards.

Sorry Scotty, its week 15, and last weeks "win" against the Red's hardly counts. Despite all their pre-season protestations about playing attractive running rugby, the Tahs game has not changed or improved from last year. They may well have the cattle (although I think the jury is still out on that one) but their game plan and player management sucks. The combination of Burgess with his loopy droopy long ball and his increasing insistence in providing hand delivered ball (i.e. running to the 5/8 to hand it to him) and Barnes' being too deep doesn't provide any threat in attack. By the time Barnes gets the ball he's so far behind the gain line and has so many opposing players hanging off him that he has no alternative but to kick. Barnes positioning is easily rectified, but Burgess is another matter. Someone really needs to either fix him or send him back to Bondi. Problem is that Holmes offers no solution. He is as equally culpable as Burgess in the loopy droopy pass area, and neither of them are quick enough to make a break from a congested ruck area.

And don't even start me about Portley Beale (well that may be a tad harsh, seeing as he does seem to have shed some lard this year). He may well be a talented athlete but he is not suited to professional rugby. In a word, his athleticism is overshadowed by his timidity. He resists contact in attack and avoids it at all costs in defence, cf Adrian Jacobs, who is probably about the same stature as Beale, maybe even a little smaller.

Carter has no place in this team. Time has moved on and bash'n'barge doesn't cut it any more.

That's the backs done, so for the forwards. Waugh must go. He's trading off his past reputation and hasn't really offered much for the last 3-4 years. Too slow, can't pass and only moderately useful at the breakdown. I suspect also, that his on field game management may have something to do with the Tah's playing style. Maybe Palmer could cover 7 in the meantime.

Caldwell hasn't really cut it at S14 level and his continued inclusion comes from the lack of an alternative. Haven't seen much of Roodt, but at least he seemed to want to mix it when he came on against the Stormers. Suspect tho that he's still some way off being match fit. Fixing the 4/5 combo is a must do for the Tahs.

To his credit Mowen is a consistent tryer but lacks physicality and consequently offers no threat in attack. (You'd think that someone would have at least done something about lowering his body height when he takes the ball up.) Overall, a good back up to Mumm, who for gods sake is a 6, not a lock. (And should be made captain as soon as possible.)

I don't have the solution, but that's the problem.

 

[Sully]

PhucNgo: You forgot to mention the seconds ticking away while Burgess stands at the back of the Ruck! He has gone from super fast at the breakdown to slower than a house. Barnes has a liking for playing deep and Queensland tried to get him to play closer to the line and he would do it for a while but he always ended up way back there again.

I thought Caldwell was going alright. But agree that waugh seems off the pace. This may be because of the breakdown law enforcement and/or the ridiculous #8 at the scrum experiment. Hopefully the second has been placed in the circular file permanently!

As for Carter well I've never been a fan. But to move a slow ineffectual inside centre to outside centre seems like a bad move to say the least. Maybe moving one of the Wingers in may work better although I have never seen either one play anything but wing. And I was a Prop!

 

[naza]

Waugh must go. I suspect also, that his on field game management may have something to do with the Tah's playing style. Maybe Palmer could cover 7 in the meantime.

You want Dan Palmer, our emerging 112 kg tighthead prop, to play openside ? :lmao:

I've long said that Waugh is the common denominator for the Tahs' style of play. Any others that agree with this theory ?

Caldwell hasn't really cut it at S14 level and his continued inclusion comes from the lack of an alternative.

You want to cull our best lock ? :lmao: That's just batshit crazy.

Your posts are entertaining, like a car crash.