This underlines the mantra of NSW Rugby - bottom line, bottom line, bottom line...then we'll think about developing a good product to future-proof.
Of course they need to run a business, but not at the expense of encouraging it to grow.
Waratah Fan Forum
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Of course they need to run a business, but not at the expense of encouraging it to grow.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Was Matt Burke in attendence?
I can only judge from what I saw on TV but it seemed like only Drew Mitchell had the balls to speak with some conviction and step away from the company line. It is not a question But a point the Tahs fans should make quite clear is that the Tahs players and staff are paid to be there while you fans PAY to be there.
I hope something good comes out of the exercise but it appears there is just too much smoke and mirrors for the Tahs too be honest and face the extent of the problem they face.
For the benifit of Tahs fans I hope it gets better.
I can only judge from what I saw on TV but it seemed like only Drew Mitchell had the balls to speak with some conviction and step away from the company line. It is not a question But a point the Tahs fans should make quite clear is that the Tahs players and staff are paid to be there while you fans PAY to be there.
I hope something good comes out of the exercise but it appears there is just too much smoke and mirrors for the Tahs too be honest and face the extent of the problem they face.
For the benifit of Tahs fans I hope it gets better.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
This quote in the Herald sums up the Waratahs for me:
That is the culture of the Waratahs. I don't know about anyone else, but I have lost interest due to:
(1) Always making the finals and never winning the comp - it's no longer exciting that they're in the hunt for the finals because I know they haven't got the extra leg to win the whole thing.
(2) The conservative (i.e., lack of adventure, lack of confidence) playing style that's been going for about 5 or 6 years.
(3) The beer and food service at SFS detracts from the experience.
That is the culture of the Waratahs. I don't know about anyone else, but I have lost interest due to:
(1) Always making the finals and never winning the comp - it's no longer exciting that they're in the hunt for the finals because I know they haven't got the extra leg to win the whole thing.
(2) The conservative (i.e., lack of adventure, lack of confidence) playing style that's been going for about 5 or 6 years.
(3) The beer and food service at SFS detracts from the experience.
Rob42
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I'm guessing the money offered by ANZ stadium to play there is way too tempting to be ignored. And last year's Brumbies game there, deadly dull as it was, drew the Tahs' biggest crowd of the season. I hate the lack of atmosphere as much as anyone else, but I can't fault them for thinking of the bottom line. How many years ago was it when they were bankrupt? It's not the stadium that's causing them to play dull rugby.
HodgoBerro
Bill Watson (15)
No he was not.
As for the drew mitchell comment he did say some interesting stuff including a rotation policy (was as a joke but I see his point) the kicking and the way the game is played.
Rob42
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
It's impressive how Mitchell has grown up both on the field and off in the last couple of years. Perhaps a positive for the Tahs' culture.
T
Tank
Guest
Not really RH - it is quite a usual governance model for the CEO not to be a member of the Board. Governance wise, the Board has one employee - the CEO. All other employees are the CEO's. That way the Board can direct the CEO to fulfill strategic plans and ensure operational success. The role of the Board and the Management should be clearly separated.
Most SSO's and a lot of NSO's would not have the CEO on the Board. In fact, it is an Australian Sports Commission recommendation that the CEO not sit on the Board in sports organisation.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
A mate and I debated about whether we'd go or not up until the last minute then decided it would be all fluff and dorothy dixers. From the sounds of things, it's a shame we didn't go.
I think the playing style issue is obviously important, but it is only one factor that detracts from the Waratahs product. The reports from Grumbles and Fox made it sound like the bulk of the conversation was about playing style. Folks who attended -- what else was talked about?
I think the playing style issue is obviously important, but it is only one factor that detracts from the Waratahs product. The reports from Grumbles and Fox made it sound like the bulk of the conversation was about playing style. Folks who attended -- what else was talked about?
HodgoBerro
Bill Watson (15)
From what Michael Foley said on Ruggamatrix, Bath Rugby used to have these on a frequent basis. The only way the club could make it work better for them on and off the field was through the opinions of fans.
Obviously the fans at the Waratahs arent happy, and this is a starting point for them, and if this frequently happens, the fans opinions are the best way of getting an idea of where they are heading and where they should be heading.
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
My view is that for NSW rugby followers the Waratahs are like your family. They may irritate you and disappoint you but you put up with them and stick by them.
My criticisms of the 'Tahs tend to be hierarchical, at least in public.
I try to never criticise the players. They're young blokes doing their best in a very demanding sport.
I regard the coaches as fair game.
As for the CEO, I don't mind the fact that I hardly know who he is. Far better that than having a big-noting prima donna who thinks it's his personal fiefdom. His predecessors didn't seem to be bad blokes either. But they haven't exactly been men of vision or strong leaders.
My strongest focus of criticism is on the Waratahs board. How a rugby team enjoying a monopoly position in the most wealthy city in the Southern Hemisphere, a city where the sport of the business community is rugby, doesn't dominate the Super competition is beyond me. On field our team does not come close to fulfilling its potential and from a business or financial perspective the franchise is a disaster.
It would appear that most of the board members are basically seat cushions, i.e., their sole function is to occupy chairs around the board table. Yet they blunder on, year after year. Where is the leadership; where are the drivers who will get things moving ahead? Why not get out of the road and let someone else have a go?
One thing I can't blame them for is "the beer and food service at SFS" It's out of their control.
My criticisms of the 'Tahs tend to be hierarchical, at least in public.
I try to never criticise the players. They're young blokes doing their best in a very demanding sport.
I regard the coaches as fair game.
As for the CEO, I don't mind the fact that I hardly know who he is. Far better that than having a big-noting prima donna who thinks it's his personal fiefdom. His predecessors didn't seem to be bad blokes either. But they haven't exactly been men of vision or strong leaders.
My strongest focus of criticism is on the Waratahs board. How a rugby team enjoying a monopoly position in the most wealthy city in the Southern Hemisphere, a city where the sport of the business community is rugby, doesn't dominate the Super competition is beyond me. On field our team does not come close to fulfilling its potential and from a business or financial perspective the franchise is a disaster.
It would appear that most of the board members are basically seat cushions, i.e., their sole function is to occupy chairs around the board table. Yet they blunder on, year after year. Where is the leadership; where are the drivers who will get things moving ahead? Why not get out of the road and let someone else have a go?
One thing I can't blame them for is "the beer and food service at SFS" It's out of their control.
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
Jake/Lauren, did anyone raise marketing at the forum? IMO that is the tahs biggest issue. There seems to be no focus on what I consider the 2 key ways to improve attendance and participation - being 1: Making a Tah game a "night out" experience, and 2: making cult heors of the players.
Hopefully, the new Doco can start to address the second point. We need to build up some marketable players - not just smear mud on them and slap them on taxis. Kids want heros to follow
the first one is also easy to fix. Most have mentioned food and beer and this is a huge part of it. Not only in speed of service, but in offer as well - surely we can do better than chips pies and hot dogs? Also providing extended entertainment such as curtain raisers or other S15 games on the big screen, bands after (hopefully better than Saddle Rash) keeping sections of the gorund open and not having security sweep everyone out at final whistle. I'd like to see some arvo games too - maybe if they are getting the big incentive to play at ANZ, make it a Sat or Sunday afternoon, focus on kids entertainment and do rides around the stadium and again make it an extended experience.
Considerng the big business background of some of the board, I am suprised this sort of thing gets so little attention. They seem to sit back and blame the players for not doing better as though it is the be all and end all of attendnance.
Hopefully, the new Doco can start to address the second point. We need to build up some marketable players - not just smear mud on them and slap them on taxis. Kids want heros to follow
the first one is also easy to fix. Most have mentioned food and beer and this is a huge part of it. Not only in speed of service, but in offer as well - surely we can do better than chips pies and hot dogs? Also providing extended entertainment such as curtain raisers or other S15 games on the big screen, bands after (hopefully better than Saddle Rash) keeping sections of the gorund open and not having security sweep everyone out at final whistle. I'd like to see some arvo games too - maybe if they are getting the big incentive to play at ANZ, make it a Sat or Sunday afternoon, focus on kids entertainment and do rides around the stadium and again make it an extended experience.
Considerng the big business background of some of the board, I am suprised this sort of thing gets so little attention. They seem to sit back and blame the players for not doing better as though it is the be all and end all of attendnance.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
What major sporting events have cheaper food or beer than the tahs?
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Bruce, your usual quality, and, as outsider now in QLD, but a 6 generation NSW-er by upbringing, I agree. Your analysis is but one of the reasons I moved to supporting the Reds up here. I grew to view the Tahs as fundamentally flawed gems, not a team that would improve and grow.
But another key dimension is sitting behind, or above, your astute assessment. Where is the self-praising ARU in all this? The State RUs are all de facto additionally funded by ARU grants and such like, and would not survive in any serious manner without them. The ARU, de facto or de jure, can exercise major influence over the State RUs by means of funds-flow power, should it choose to.
Why does the ARU, with all its strategising and vision-for-Australian-rugby declaring capacity, not far more forcefully intervene to use its monetary powers to drive far higher competency levels into the critical-to-game RUs? Look at where Aus teams are in aggregate in this year's S15, hardly an advertisement for leadership and coaching and business management quality. Look at where the QRU was allowed to end up 2004-09, and look at the truly shocking state of the ACTRU today. And the NSWRU is reportedly headed into more financial fragility with Tahs' 2011 income levels falling off badly.
For the ARU to declaim the talents of JO'N (as now renewed) and RD (to be renewed), etc, where is the structure, drive and execution from the ARU to ensure our local RUs become first-class leaders and developers for rugby in the relevant States? Ultimately, what is Australian national rugby if the State RUs are mediocre, or run in a mediocre manner? If the ARU should argue that it cannot determine the governance quality of the State RUs in any form (something I would hotly debate if they did so argue), then there is by definition something seriously flawed in the entire constitutional structure of Australian rugby, and such should become an urgent priority for major, immediate remedy.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Bruce, I would go along with that. Everything is set up just about perfectly for the Tahs in Sydney. As you say, the sport has rich backing, in a city (and state) that is the wealthiest and most populous in these parts, with the best supply of player talent anyway and a school and juniors system that continues to pump them out year after year.
Why the Tahs haven't been more successful baffles me. It's got to be cultural, though with that said back in the amateur days the Tahs were ruthless and successful.
Perhaps NSW Rugby is more infested with the "57 old farts running rugby" syndrome than most other places.
Why the Tahs haven't been more successful baffles me. It's got to be cultural, though with that said back in the amateur days the Tahs were ruthless and successful.
Perhaps NSW Rugby is more infested with the "57 old farts running rugby" syndrome than most other places.
HodgoBerro
Bill Watson (15)
It's interesting that the Waratahs havent sent out their own response to last night
Price isn't the issue, it's quality and service.
Bar and food lines are huge and move far too slowly due to incompetence of staff and management. There's only one beer and it gets served in plastic cups. It's no better at quieter games either - they close most of the bars and concentrate the problems.
Torn Hammy
Johnnie Wallace (23)
I actually think the forum is a good idea.
The Waratah fan to Waratah team connection is a very undeveloped one, that is we pay our money, turn up for the games, cheer and then they wave. If they play badly that connection is quickly strained or broken.
Add to that all the player movement erodes tribalism and ownership of players. What sort of passion does Rocky Elsom, Australia's captain, exude in proincial rugby.
So I see more interaction with the team as a very positive step.
I also think that the elite management should also make themselves more accessable to the grassroots' management. Corporate managers don't give a stuff about culture whereas the age old rugby culture is everything to those involved in the grassroots. I see this divide as the heart of many problems in professional sport.
The Waratah fan to Waratah team connection is a very undeveloped one, that is we pay our money, turn up for the games, cheer and then they wave. If they play badly that connection is quickly strained or broken.
Add to that all the player movement erodes tribalism and ownership of players. What sort of passion does Rocky Elsom, Australia's captain, exude in proincial rugby.
So I see more interaction with the team as a very positive step.
I also think that the elite management should also make themselves more accessable to the grassroots' management. Corporate managers don't give a stuff about culture whereas the age old rugby culture is everything to those involved in the grassroots. I see this divide as the heart of many problems in professional sport.
The Mayor of Perth
Ted Fahey (11)
Sorry to state the bleedin' obvious but it is of the utmost importance to Australian rugby that the game is run well in NSW, as the state has to not only trot out the Tahs but stock the majority of the Brumbies, Force and Rebels. So I've read the last 20 or so posts and it seems to me that the governance is not well understood, even in NSW. Only Bruce writes about the Waratahs Board whereas others refer to the NSWRU. As I understand it, there are two separate Boards for Tahs and NSW rugby and it is the Tahs Board that this forum should be focussing on. Or is the governance not well understood because it is not well defined? And if so, could this be contributing to the angst of the locals?
As for your 'Carling point' TBH, I was a guest of NSWRU at the Cheetahs game and you may well be right.
As for your 'Carling point' TBH, I was a guest of NSWRU at the Cheetahs game and you may well be right.
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