Waratah Fan Forum

[TOCC]

the only way to promote rugby in sydney is to have individuals become stars in the team, NSW rugby, you wanna know why crowds have dropped, 4 words, Dell Sailor, Lote Tuqiri

individual stars definetly do help... but i think highlighting Sailor and Turiqi is rather wrong, the only reason the crowds have dipped as a result of these two players is because their actions inadvertently damaged the code.

Players like Burke and Campese previously, in addition to current players like TPN and Beale(for the rest of the season at least) have the potential for this start quality.

 

[waratahjesus]

individual stars definetly do help... but i think highlighting Sailor and Turiqi is rather wrong, the only reason the crowds have dipped as a result of these two players is because their actions inadvertently damaged the code.

Players like Burke and Campese previously, in addition to current players like TPN and Beale(for the rest of the season at least) have the potential for this start quality.

Did they damage the code? The code was strong in dealing with them. The lasting damage is that the tahs lost rugby league fans who had followed the players across. I'm not saying that they were the best players in the world, the fact is they had massive media profiles and there defection to rugby union caused a lot of interest that the tahs where able to capatalise on in getting crowds to the game.

Beale and TPN are certainly players that can help, but other than a five minute interview on the rugby club, what does the code have to get them in the spotlight, does a rugby league fan from out west know he puts his body on the line week n week out and lifts his team in doing so, or is he "that islander guy with the Afro"

 

[TOCC]

Did they damage the code? The code was strong in dealing with them. The lasting damage is that the tahs lost rugby league fans who had followed the players across. I'm not saying that they were the best players in the world, the fact is they had massive media profiles and there defection to rugby union caused a lot of interest that the tahs where able to capatalise on in getting crowds to the game.

Beale and TPN are certainly players that can help, but other than a five minute interview on the rugby club, what does the code have to get them in the spotlight, does a rugby league fan from out west know he puts his body on the line week n week out and lifts his team in doing so, or is he "that islander guy with the Afro"

Did they really bring league fans with them though, the Wallabies were drawing 100'000 people to Telstra Stadium in 2000 without any of those league stars.
Yes they brought a initial spike in exposure and undoubtedly extra fans through the gate, i just question there longer term value, can we really say that in 2004/2005 Rogers, Salior or Tuqiri were bringing in any extra fans that wouldn't have come anyway?

As for the NSW crowds, well the signing of Rogers and Tuqiri coincided with the Tahs becoming finals contenders.. as they say, winners are grinners

Im just not entirely convinced of the true 'exposure value' of big name signings like Sailor and Tuqiri, once the novelty value wore off i think there drawing power was significantly reduced. Yes they still carried bigger profiles then any of the other union players, but fans are attracted to talent not player profiles, and in the case of Tuqiri and Sailor, there talent in rugby union never matched there profiles.

 

[waratahjesus]

From my experience sitting in the cheap seats of Sydney for the last 15 years, sailor an the turq brought a he'll of a lot of casual fans who stayed for a few years. They also got a lot of league fans to give It a go.

The last two seasons the tahs have been contenders and haunt got the crowds, the crowd around me during this time are rugby fans, you rarely get walk ins and I hav'nt had a conversation with a league fan who's team wasn't playing that night and he thought he would check it out since tuqiri left.

The problem to casual fans isn't style or substance, it's emotional attachment to actually care if a team wins or loses that gets people hooked and turns them into loyal (cash cows) to do this you have to make it "cool" this is where the tahs and rugby to a larger extent in n.s.w suffers.

Youbcan blame free to air coverage, you can blame rugby league and afl, there all valid reasons. But it's time to create stars and get behind individuals that can then become the recognizable media identitys that will get linters through the door

 

[Blue]

To suggest that anything constructive will be implemented out of this is naive.

This is real cloak and dagger stuff.

It's like advertisign campaigns that start withg "We have listened to our customers and decided that..."

Bollocks. You have figured out how to squeeze more money out of me and you're trying to bullshit me into believing it's my idea.

For the sake of rugby in this town I sincerely hope I am wrong. I'm allergic to league.

 

[Gnostic]

Did they damage the code? The code was strong in dealing with them. The lasting damage is that the tahs lost rugby league fans who had followed the players across. I'm not saying that they were the best players in the world, the fact is they had massive media profiles and there defection to rugby union caused a lot of interest that the tahs where able to capatalise on in getting crowds to the game.

Beale and TPN are certainly players that can help, but other than a five minute interview on the rugby club, what does the code have to get them in the spotlight, does a rugby league fan from out west know he puts his body on the line week n week out and lifts his team in doing so, or is he "that islander guy with the Afro"

All valid points WJ, but IMO the key point is they have to PLAY WELL. Winning will look after itself if they actually execute well and show a decent level of skill consistently. They do not do this now because as Poido suggests in his article when the Tahs lose a couple they are told to play it tight and conservatively and WIN AT ALL COSTS. This sort of determination isn't new and has been seen under every coach since the game went professional. It is the whole poin t of my thread and various comments on the Tahs. When the teams adopts this mindset they lose the ability to play other options, they become predictable and easy for opponents of any substance to deal with. Then they start grasping at straws and taking low percentage options and the accuracy of their skills execution begins to drop away further. Year after year the Tahs do this and forget that to win in the big games they have to actually score points and not just defend.

How many kicks did we see from the Reds last night? I would like to suggest that it compares closely with the Tahs against the Blues. What was entirely different was the execution of the kicking, the Reds find space or put huge pressure on the reciever, the Tahs invariably find a defender who runs it back or returns the ball with a well executed kick. This is what gets them booed, not kicking perse but the poorly conceived and executed rubbish they produce.

There are stars aplenty in the Tahs, and potential stars as well, the fact is that they cannot and will not shine while ever the team is told they must win not matter what. They got booed last week against the Force and won the game, that should tell them that winning isn't enough.

 

[Scarfman]

From Poido's article, it's interesting that he mentions Foley twice, given that many of suspect that he will be the head coach next year. I reckon Poido has his own candidate in mind - possibly Cheika - and is promoting him.

Typical NSW politics.

 

[Gnostic]

I doubt Chieka will have anything to do with the NSWRU. A fair bit has gone on there if you remember back to his Randwick days.

The poisoned chalice that is the Waratahs coaching job will continue until the board steps away from the coahing box. IMO Foley would be mad to take on the NSW job, if he does he can kiss any aspirations of the national job goodbye, unless of course he can ensure that the NSW board gives him free rein abd carte blanche to ensure a cultural change takes place instead of the usual change of decor.

I wonder what spin the board will put on potentially the worst Sydney crowd in the history of Super Rugby next week. They should take note that the crowds the Force get (as a percentage of ground capacity) and the Rebels are much better than what the Tahs are getting and it is simply down to the fact that as limitted as those two sides are they at least execute what they do well.

 

[Hawko]

They should take note that the crowds the Force get (as a percentage of ground capacity) and the Rebels are much better than what the Tahs are getting and it is simply down to the fact that as limitted as those two sides are they at least execute what they do well.

There's a bit more to it than that. The Force have played a pretty negative brand of rugby most of the year and IMO were about 75% to blame for the kickfest. But they do tend to do that playing away and play more openly at home in front of a less demanding home crowd. I hated the aimless kicking too but I was cheering when we decided to keep the ball in hand and pick-and-drive for the win. Serves the Force right, they had the better team on the park and lost because they wanted to be negative. The Tahs response to the Force gameplan was the problem and it is lack of foresight by the coaching team to not have developed a different response pre-game. We all know what the Crusaders would have done and that would have resulted in a ten try shellacking. But the Tahs had too many injured backs and they dropped Kingston for Anesi, so they just didn't have the cattle. But there were other options. They could have set up differently once the kicks started coming by having the backrowers and Burgess sprint back to support Beale, Anesi and Turner as soon as a kick looked likely and if they didn't get a linebreak in the first run they could have restarted a pick and drive regime. The Force would have had less ball to kick and by 60 minutes the Force tacklers would have been badly fatigued. Hickey's plan was to try and run it back as seen in the first half but once they were behind this was abandoned for field position kicking. This was poor game plan development by a coach who knows that Burgess and Barnes do not generally kick well for field position. There were much better gameplans for the team the Tahs had on the field.

From Poido's article, it's interesting that he mentions Foley twice, given that many of suspect that he will be the head coach next year. I reckon Poido has his own candidate in mind - possibly Cheika - and is promoting him. Typical NSW politics.

I'd have Cheika tomorrow if I could. He's the best credentialed Australian coach after Link and he was brought up in a running rugby culture. But I understand he re-signed with Stade Francais for another two years - or was this just newspaper talk?

 

[louie]

I doubt Chieka will have anything to do with the NSWRU. A fair bit has gone on there if you remember back to his Randwick days.

Gnostic as someone who is closer to the action, can you explain to me what happened? always wondered.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

This fan forum smacks of desparation.

True. The only people who will turn up are rusted on supporters who will keep coming regardless of the suffering. Sydney being the fickle market it is, no one else will give a rats arse. I think WJ has the right of it with his comments.

Here's an interesting snippet from Pat Lam's weekly article, which Bullrush usually posts:

http://www.theblues.co.nz/News/2011-5-11/Coachs-Corner.aspx

It reminds me of the week I spent with the great coach Wayne Bennett who I notice the Aussies are now going to be using as a mentor for the World Cup. He said to me “Pat one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give you as a coach in regards to fans' advice and opinions is the moment you start listening to the advice you get from the fans is the moment you’ll end up sitting next to them in the stands.”.

 

[Hawko]

True. The only people who will turn up are rusted on supporters who will keep coming regardless of the suffering. Sydney being the fickle market it is, no one else will give a rats arse. I think WJ has the right of it with his comments.

Here's an interesting snippet from Pat Lam's weekly article, which Bullrush usually posts:

http://www.theblues.co.nz/News/2011-5-11/Coachs-Corner.aspx

That is true wisdom.

 

[Tahfan]

From Poido's article, it's interesting that he mentions Foley twice, given that many of suspect that he will be the head coach next year. I reckon Poido has his own candidate in mind - possibly Cheika - and is promoting him.

Typical NSW politics.

Cheika is the man who could turn the Warathas culture around. He did it at Leinster where he turned a team that had all the talent in the world but no real winning culture into one of the top teams in Europe. Not sure if he would come back to Aus or if the NSWRU would pay what he wants but he would turn the Tahs into a force, no doubt about it.

 

[barbarian]

I agree with WJ here. The Waratahs lack marketable figures. 'Excitement machines' if you will. Beale is the only player close, and they are losing him. The Reds have Quade and Digby, the Force have JOC (James O'Connor), the Brumbies have a few young guns like Lealiifano, To'omua and Coleman, and the Tahs next year will have.... Cross? Barnes? AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)?

We need a big name marquee signing. I would be throwing bucketloads of cash at someone like Chabal, BOD or a high profile leaguie like Hayne. Someone you can build a marketing campaign around.

 

[DPK]

Takudzwa Ngwenya?

 

[matty_k]

As great as a decent marquee signing would be the Tahs really need to find a home grown superstar. Developed or otherwise.

 

[barbarian]

That would be good too, but there is no-one coming through in the next couple of years. I am really worried about next year, we need something to fill the hole created by Beale leaving. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will not be enough.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Cipriani?

 

[cyclopath]

Cipriani?

Oh yeah, that would work a treat. Give him Todd Carney's number and sell tickets!

 

[Gagger]

But how would you make space for him? I mean, we've got Anesi-the-1-cap-All-Black