Waratah Fan Forum

[inthestands]

How is it a bad idea?

A forum where people get to have their say and the team/organisation can provide answers (hopefully not excuses) and also take feedback on board.

It doesn't look like a knee-jerk either as the CEO seems to want to run these regularly throughout the year. In time, this could be more like what is seen at community-based football clubs, not state-based franchises.

Let's be fair - there is a hell of a lot of time and tears on this forum for the Waratahs losing touch with their fans, and maybe they have. People say the Tahs don't listen to their fans.

Well, they're providing the opportunity here, and will continue to do so. So stop the whining, get to the forum and at least give them the credit for trying to engage the members and supporters be they disenfranchised or not.

 

[Newb]

unless some wise heads in the mold of LG and bruce (to name only a couple) show up to this i fear for what it could degrade into. "let them eat cake" may get tossed around before the end of it.

though an in-person format may actually be more constructive than send-us-your-ideas questionnaire email thing. takes some balls to really speak your mind when they're staring you down, and no doubt to speak up at all you must actually have some real passion about it. and as most of us know, anonymous internet comments are the devil's work.

 

[Moses]

I don't think tickets are overpriced - $20 for a match, $35 for two seems pretty decent to me.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

is GAGR sending a representative?

 

[Rebel rouser]

How is it a bad idea?

A forum where people get to have their say and the team/organisation can provide answers (hopefully not excuses) and also take feedback on board.

Clearly, you've never been involved in politics. The 'open forum' is generally referred to as 'suicide by public'.

[video=youtube;nLNX8l0uBTw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNX8l0uBTw[/video]

I particularly like the chant at the 30 second mark 'you work for us'!

(Obviously, I'm imagining emotions would not run as high in a sports forum, but the bottom line is the ability to get constructive feedback is small, and the likelihood of changing the way things run even smaller. Once again, I refer you to the Brumbies and Andy Friend.)

If it was me? And they really wanted to turn this around? Well, a week of heartfelt apologies from players and admin staff at every place possible (tv, blogs, radio, before the game). Show the public you genuinely want to re-engage, then if you want real feedback, a series of targeted focus groups from stakeholders throughout the game. ie. groups of 10 at a time picked from major groups, including GAGR so that you can implement systemic change.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

my concern with the forum is that the coach and cap will be sat behind a table like a press conference, and some idiot (likely journo plant) will ask "why do you kick so much" and Hickey will say "well we try to play an open style of game, but sometimes they kick to us, and sometimes its the weather, and soemtimes we have injuries, so stick with us we are trying" and from then on every time they get pushed on the issue of the style of game they are playing they'll just say "we already answered that question"

worse still, the crowd will be filled with swooning airhead fans, or enthusiastic kids who don't know any better (critical as they are to any club) asking non event questions like "when is drew coming back" or "can you really win without phil" or "how big a Taf's muscles?"

that said, it seems to be the quality level of most rugby journos in sydney anyway

 

[daz]

If it was me? And they really wanted to turn this around? Well, a week of heartfelt apologies from players and admin staff at every place possible (tv, blogs, radio, before the game). Show the public you genuinely want to re-engage, then if you want real feedback, a series of targeted focus groups from stakeholders throughout the game. ie. groups of 10 at a time picked from major groups, including GAGR so that you can implement systemic change.

Nope. Can't agree.

Yes, you can say that the coach has a bad gameplan. Say that the admin are ineffective in prompt and accurate communication. Say that the executive branch of the NSWRU has lost touch with grassroots level. These are all valid points and would likely require minimal effort on your behalf to provide examples of each of these points.

But why on earth would you want the players to prostrate themselves at your feet and humbly apologise? Apologise for what, exactly? They hold junior sessions. They visit schools. In between community work they train and play. In spare time they get to read stories of how crap they are.

You think they don't try? These guys earn a living from this, and as professional rugby players they need to perform to get contracts. If you have bad players on board, blame the coach or the board. Yes, some players may be a bit more passionate about the jumper than others, but I have yet to see a player at Super level who I would nominate as a passive passenger.


I assume you have a job. If you were not doing a good job would you walk into your bosses office and tell him how crap you are, and he/she should really fire you?

I'm no fan of the Tahs, but I recognise that strong NSW rugby is critical to the code in Oz. I think your idea of a solution would have the exact opposite outcome.

 

[Rebel rouser]

You've misread my message, Daz. Players AND admin staff. You yourself point out there are issues at various levels, there has to be collective responsibility from the entire organisation.

Trust me, nothing gets people back on side as quickly as a heartfelt apology and the genuine assertion that you are going to do better in the future. Doesn't matter if you know where you went wrong or not, clearly something has gone amiss and if you say 'it wasn't my fault' you will never get anywhere. You've got to acknowledge that 'somewhere, we've gone wrong, I want you to show me where that is and, trust me, we'll make it beter next time'.

Also works with girlfriends.

 

[waratahjesus]

the problem isnt the gameplan, or the coach, or the players or anything else.
the problem is that in order to take a greater market share in a town like sydney (im not talking about any other state here, except for the one i live in, in which i have worked in advertising, television and marketing) they need to spend a f@#kload of money, the NRL is owned by the no#1 read paper and produces five page articles on someone getting a new tattoo and a small section on berricks fight with concussion. ad to this the lack of free to air and even though the general public know who the tahs are, alot couldnt name an individual player or notice him in the street. the AFl are spending a heap cracking western sydney thats only going to serve to highlight the swans as well.

if an executive or marketing person came here for answers then the fact is, what is said would be rubbish in what the fan forum is trying to achieve. thats to get more people to attend and watch the tahs so they can make more money. the people here and the answers given above are from people who read and bother to voice an opinion on rugby every day. if you go down the pub and talk to your friend about hickey playing a conservitive structure there going to look at you and ask how many times you have taken it up the arse (not that theres anything wrong with that)

the only way to promote rugby in sydney is to have individuals become stars in the team, NSW rugby, you wanna know why crowds have dropped, 4 words, Dell Sailor, Lote Tuqiri

 

[Hawko]

my concern with the forum is that the coach and cap will be sat behind a table like a press conference, and some idiot (likely journo plant) will ask "why do you kick so much" and Hickey will say "well we try to play an open style of game, but sometimes they kick to us, and sometimes its the weather, and soemtimes we have injuries, so stick with us we are trying" and from then on every time they get pushed on the issue of the style of game they are playing they'll just say "we already answered that question"

worse still, the crowd will be filled with swooning airhead fans, or enthusiastic kids who don't know any better (critical as they are to any club) asking non event questions like "when is drew coming back" or "can you really win without phil" or "how big a Taf's muscles?"

that said, it seems to be the quality level of most rugby journos in sydney anyway

I think this post is right on the money.

What the Tahs admin is trying to do is to engage with its fan base. For that they should be applauded. However this is going about it completely the wrong way.

What they are saying to us is: "We are the people charged with managing the Waratahs - the team and the operation - but we don't know what we are doing so we are going to have a meeting so you can tell us how to do our jobs." Its an admission of failure and should be followed immediately by mass resignations.

A short history puts it in context. After a disastrous early season in 2008, where injury, weather and the team not immediately gelling into a Crusaders-like outfit, Link was told that he would not be re-appointed. While Link and the team went on to play terrific rugby and lose a close final to the Crusaders, the admin totally stuffed up the new coach appointment, to the extent that virtually all the applicants pulled out leaving Chris Hickey as the best of what was left. Hickey is a nice bloke and well regarded by the team but he has always been a conservative coach even in Shute and has got more conservative over his term as he has tried to engineer successful results. This has led to rising dissatisfaction in the supporters ranks with the style of play and a massive reduction in crowds through the gates. Lower crowds have meant less money to invest, so the admin has been focussing on cost reduction rather than growing the supporter and playing base.

This has been made worse by the Tahs allowing Sanzar to totally rape them through the new draw. Last year we played all the best teams and the best crowd-drawing teams away. This year we play those teams away again! By next year, we will not have seen the Blues, Crusaders and Bulls in Sydney for three years. We've seen plenty of such high-drawing teams as the Lions and Cheetahs though.

The Waratahs are right not to address the coaching re-appointment till after the season is over. We don't need another Link episode. What the admin people have to do is to tell Hickey quietly but forcefully that the style of game he is playing is going to bankrupt the organisation and he needs to change. If this was done quietly one-on-one, no one need get their noses out of joint. If he refuses to change then it gets tougher but Hickey is not an unreasonable guy and he knows the crowds are dwindling and the gate receipts are falling. He just needs a shove to make change happen.

Town Hall meetings will have the opposite effect. Everyone will draw back into their corners and circle the wagons. And then the supporters will be even more pissed off. Its like they read the management strategy book and then did exactly the opposite. No Tah fan has any power to change anything. The people with the power to change things are the CEO, the coaches and the players. Those with the power to change it just need to get on and do it.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Well put hawko. I didn't get to the draw, but yeah we've a few shit years. Guaranteeing a home game v the brumbies doesn't exactly compensate

 

[mark_s]

They pick a Sat night game, and give everyone who attends a shute shield match on the same day a free (cheap) ticket to the tahs.

I do agree with Waju though, the crowds and press that the leagues converts brought was priceless. Maybe sign SBW?

 

[blues recovery]

total lack of empathy or understanding for grass roots across the whole organisation to me is the major problem.The overall management of Rugby in NSW has been so bad for so long the average rugby follower in Sydney lets their disaffection with this loose on the professional team

 

[Blue]

As I am not a Tahs fan you can take this with a pich of salt but the Tahs are drab.

Going to the SFS is drab. The atmoshpere is about as exciting as the month-end bridge tournament at the local RSL. The team is largely full of drab people (TPN and Schmoo is the only exception). Very few real characters that fans really warm to (Quade, JOC (James O'Connor), Dell types, Digby). The coach is drab (more than 30 seconds in an interview and every human being who happend to be tuned into Fox Sports news falls asleep).

Then you spend your hard earned, go to the SFS and you watch your team kick the leather off the thing and play a low risk, percentage game. You expect try fesst becuase the leagazoids keep banging on how boring rugby is.

Rugby in this town needs to become more exciting to watch or it is well and truly fucked.

Even as a rugby tragic neutral I used to have a season ticket but I can't be arsed any more. I come from SA and mind tough forward battles but there's a limit to that.

This fan forum smacks of desparation.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

This fan forum smacks of desparation.

Sums it up in one line

 

[matty_k]

This fan forum smacks of desparation.

Would you prefer them to sit back and do nothing? Keep plodding along the path they are on now?

To me this is a real step forward. It is showing that they are willing to listen to their fans/supporters. If only one good idea comes out of this it is better than where they were yesterday.

 

[daz]

You want to fix the Tahs? Send Hickey and Co a copy of the Reds v Blues game from tonight.

To paraphrase Kevin Costner; Play it, and they will come.

 

[ChargerWA]

This idea is proof that the organisation from the CEO and NSWRU at the top, down to the coach need a serious clean out. They are clean out of credibility.

 

[Gnostic]

The problem lies with what I brought up a few weeks ago. The culture from the top down is crook. The CEO, coaches and players are all a part of it, willing or not. Change has to start from the top. The CEO and board need to have absolutely zero input into the running of the team. They advertise for and select the head coach and their influence must end there, unless the coach proves inept and grossly incompetetant or breaches his contract in some material way. I believe (and IMO there is ample evidence to prove) that the coaches of the Tahs are focussed on minimising other teams scoring against them and seek to win by denying other teams points.

The only question I have for them is why, no matter who is the coach or who is in the squad do they end up playing the same way. That is the base tactics might differ but the skills execution and the intensity are just very poor. I really don't care how many kicks there are in the game, as long as they are executed with skill and accuracy. The Tahs do not do this, and hence why they get booed for kicking. As for running the ball it largely relies on one out league style hit ups - where are the set moves? Where are the basic skills?

I would expect no answer to these questions in any open forum of the nature proposed, they would just as well resign on the spot as to answer them. Instead a flat denial that this is the case would be the answer. I would love to attend and ask the question anyway just to see the effect it would have.

In any event the board, coaches and players should know that unless they start to play well, and execute with some accuracy and show some decent skills the Tahs will post a massive loss for the season and face another bail out from the ARU. The crowds will continue to fall even if they strangle out wins like they did against the Force for the simple fact that even though they won, it was terrible Rugby. The Tactics had little to do with it, just the fact that the skills were woeful. But then as Burke said we have no justifcation in questioning such things as we have not played at Super level. In closing I'd like to say Matthew Burke, you had better get used to pouring beers at the Eastwood clubhouse as the Tahs won't be able to pay you next year as nobody will show up to watch them with attitudes such as yours!

 

[Cutter]

Poido is on the money with this article http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...re-kicking-your-fans-away-20110513-1em76.html.

Sorry, Tahs, but you're kicking your fans away
Simon Poidevin
May 14, 2011

BERRICK BARNES is a highly intelligent rugby player, an exceptional athlete and, in my opinion, a future Wallabies captain.

However he must have been drinking the "Tahland" Jimmy Jones Jungle Juice when he made the following comments to the Herald's Jamie Pandaram after the bore-a-thon that was the Waratahs clash with the Western Force last Saturday night at the SFS: "We don't set out to intentionally kick the cover off the ball but they are the sacrifices we've got to make if we want to keep winning.

"There is obviously criticism of our game. We don't get a lot of love but that's fine. We will keep on plugging away. We're in the hunt, and that is the most positive thing. It is not a popularity contest."

Sorry, Berrick, I know you have to toe the company line but the players, the coaches and the administration of the Waratahs had better quickly work out that they are competing in one of the toughest popularity contests in world sport, and they are getting a dusting.

Sydney has nine NRL franchises, a professional football team in Sydney FC, a consistently popular and successful AFL franchise in the Swans and the soon to be launched Greater Western Sydney team led by the indomitable Kevin Sheedy.

The competition for the hearts and minds of the people of Sydney and NSW is profound but the administration and coaching decision-makers at the Waratahs just don't get it. Just take a 10-minute video of the tortured faces of the Waratahs fans at the SFS and contrast it with a similar video of Reds fans at Suncorp, Stormers fans at Newlands, Western Force fans in Perth and Auckland Blues fans at Eden Park - those fans are there and they are loving the experience.

I do not blame the Waratah players for the style of game the team puts on the paddock. It is Chris Hickey, Michael Foley and Scott Bowen, together with the Waratahs administration, who have to take the heat and explain why a team whose historic mantra is to play the running game continues to lapse into World War I trench warfare and aerial bombardment whenever the prospect of missing out on the finals starts to emerge.

The question must be asked: Are the Tahs players waterboarded in the dungeons of the SFS to renounce all ambition to play the running game against their own instincts of how the game should be played?

Anyone who has watched Barnes, Luke Burgess, Kurtley Beale, Lachie Turner, Ryan Cross and Tom Carter during their respective rugby careers know that they possess attacking skills and vision as good as any back-line players in Super Rugby.

Benn Robinson and Sekope Kepu are two of the most mobile and skilful front-rowers in world rugby. Dean Mumm, Ben Mowen, Sitaleki Timani and Dave Dennis have similar attributes matched by size and speed. Pat McCutcheon was a schoolboy superstar, captain of the Australian Sevens team, and yet has been transformed into a robot at the Waratahs.

It must surely irk the Waratahs players that their Queensland cousins have been transformed into an attacking machine by Ewen McKenzie, Jim McKay and Alec Evans - consistently out-performing a NSW team that has the potential to be anything.

Stand-in Crusaders captain Kieran Read made an illuminating comment after the Crusaders' 20-14 win over the Stormers in front of 50,000 fans at Newlands in Cape Town last Saturday: "The cheers from the crowd gave a huge lift and I guess they like the way we play footy.''

Too right, Kieran, the Crusaders do play beautiful rugby, are the most successful team in the history of Super Rugby and would have returned every bomb from James O'Connor last Saturday night at the SFS with a counter attack that would have torn the Force to pieces.

Hickey, Foley and Bowen are honourable, hard-working men, but unless they change their ways they should not even consider putting their hands up to coach the Waratahs next year.

The Waratahs fans have been invited to the SFS on Thursday night to hear from the coaches and players why the team is playing this style of rugby. Waratahs supporters out there should turn up in big numbers to let "Tahland" know exactly what everyone is saying - you will not put up with this garbage.

Simon Poidevin captained the Waratahs and Wallabies.