Wallaby Watch 2014

[Braveheart81]

If I was a betting man (and I am), I'd say that the odds of both Genia and Horwill being in the starting side are quite long but the odds of one of them being in the starting side are probably quite a bit better than neither of them being in the starting team.

 

[Benaud]

Yeah it overstates it. "Unlikely" to start seems a better call.

Just listening to Link's comments on the podcast, he seems to be really fighting with whether what is currently happening with Simmons and Horwill is just a form blip not worth worrying about or a form drop likely to continue. The 5 locks are an insurance policy for the latter. He mentioned he didn't want to play all 3 newbies straight up though, which suggests one of the Reds will be retained and he mentioned the importance of lineout calling about 4 times which suggests it will be Simmons.

He spoke very positively about Jones and Carter but I can't recall Skelton getting a mention.

Your comments about the difficulty with playing one of Jones and Simmons at THL are interesting though. Who knows? My hunch is that area isn't completely settled yet and the next fortnight could play a big role.

 

[BDA]

It's a bit hard to say which Locks will be chosen at this stage. I'd wage Jones and Simo to start with maybe Horwill or Skelton on the bench, but who knows. Link made some very insightful comments last night when talking about Horwill's involvement in the team. He's a guy that has a bucket-load of experience, is intelligent, can call a line-out, is an effective maul defender, etc.

Whether Horwill will be in the 15 or 23 atm is surely 50/50.
Also I the make up of the Backrow may determine which locks are selected. If Higgers plays 8, You could probably afford to play Skelton in the starting side. The make up of Higgers, Simos and Fardy gives you some pretty decent options in the lineout.

Link last night was saying that Skelton is the type of guy that goes out there and empties the tank and you know he'll give it his all for 50, 60 minutes. That suggests that Link will, if not now certainly eventually, be looking at Skelton as a starter to be subbed off at the 50, 60 minute mark. Although I expect for the first few games Skelton will play off the bench.

 

[BDA]

I would actually say Genia is still short odds to start for the Wallabies. And a lot of people seem to agree - Greg Growden, Tim Horan, George Gregan, etc.

Keeping in mind that Wallabies will play a different style to the Brumbies. I think Genia suits the Wallabies style of play better.

 

[It is what it is]

Yes Beale offers more of the unpredictability factor than Foley, but that cuts both ways. It's fine to do that to the opposition but not so good for your own team in either attack or defence.
Foley at No 10 offers his own team mates more predictability in his run/pass/kick game, something pretty important at test level.

 

[Viking]

I would actually say Genia is still short odds to start for the Wallabies. And a lot of people seem to agree - Greg Growden, Tim Horan, George Gregan, etc.

Keeping in mind that Wallabies will play a different style to the Brumbies. I think Genia suits the Wallabies style of play better.

Funnily enough I think Genia case is strengthened by the loss of Cooper. He adds another running threat that White just doesn't bring. If you look at our backline AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Cummins, To'omua, Kuridrani - they are all fairly direct runners.

His form is however just too poor for him to be selected, and White's is too good to ignore. I'd imagine McKenzie will start White and bring Genia on early in the 2nd half. Genia could end up pushing White to bench by the end of the series.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Left field selections:

- Slipper
- To'omua
- Fardy

All are ABSOLUTE smokeys behind Hooper and Moore. Has Moore ever captained anything ?????? Link will be looking for a long term captain or he should be at least.

Inexperience in captaincy duies abound.

Hooper has Pocock (possibly) to deal with next year. Pocock himself captained Australia V Scotland in Newcastle and lost the game due to his shitty decision not to kick from in front - A test match lost !!!! Hooper is an 80 minute player at the top of the tree for the past 2 years. He is articulate but I don't know how he would go with the Refs (may be fantastic). Question is would the senior players respect his captaincy being such a young age. Would hope so. - sure starter in run-on team. No trouble off the paddock

Moore, whilst a fabulous player has zero personality and his little Ref chats would be very poor. However there is no question that he has earnt the right to captain his country and a well deserved one at that.. Don't think he has any experience in this area but has surely been around enough to have learnt a few tricks of the trade.- sure starter in run on team. Also no trouble or contravery off the field. A probable disadvantage is that whilst able to play 80, more likely to be replaced around the 70min mark

Horwill and Genia - just will not happen. They both have to get into the run-on side and that is certainly up in the air. Also think James is unlikely to be in the RWC squad unless his performances increase dramatically.

Fardy - just hasn't been around enough - but sure starter in team

Slipper - has a bit of experience as captain at the Reds - 5/6 times, probably a sure starter in run-on team and while able to play 80 more likely to be replaced at 60-70 minutes and that is a disadvantage here. Seems to to able to read a football game well and from up front.Speaks well and probably a bit of a McKenzie type personality. No trouble off field.

Matt T - very good player who has cemented himself into the run - on side. Speaks extremely well and an absolute role model (as all the above blokes). Probably play full 80 and thats an advantage - he is young as well with limited experience but so what. He also is close enough to the action at 12 or 10 to objectively disect the game as opposed to forwards that are ofeten involved in set pieces and rucks and mauls. He seems a very "measured" young man

Having said the above, I like the choice of Matt To'omua

 

[tigerland12]

Slipper for captain! Simply because I like the idea of it being a prop!

I agree with Moore though, has he actually ever captained a team full time (not just when the regular captain goes off)? There is surely a reason for this.

 

[Dave Beat]

All are ABSOLUTE smokeys behind Hooper and Moore. Has Moore ever captained anything ?????? Link will be looking for a long term captain or he should be at least.

Inexperience in captaincy duies abound.

Hooper has Pocock (possibly) to deal with next year. Pocock himself captained Australia V Scotland in Newcastle and lost the game due to his shitty decision not to kick from in front - A test match lost !!!! Hooper is an 80 minute player at the top of the tree for the past 2 years. He is articulate but I don't know how he would go with the Refs (may be fantastic). Question is would the senior players respect his captaincy being such a young age. Would hope so. - sure starter in run-on team. No trouble off the paddock

Moore, whilst a fabulous player has zero personality and his little Ref chats would be very poor. However there is no question that he has earnt the right to captain his country and a well deserved one at that.. Don't think he has any experience in this area but has surely been around enough to have learnt a few tricks of the trade.- sure starter in run on team. Also no trouble or contravery off the field. A probable disadvantage is that whilst able to play 80, more likely to be replaced around the 70min mark

Horwill and Genia - just will not happen. They both have to get into the run-on side and that is certainly up in the air. Also think James is unlikely to be in the RWC squad unless his performances increase dramatically.

Fardy - just hasn't been around enough - but sure starter in team

Slipper - has a bit of experience as captain at the Reds - 5/6 times, probably a sure starter in run-on team and while able to play 80 more likely to be replaced at 60-70 minutes and that is a disadvantage here. Seems to to able to read a football game well and from up front.Speaks well and probably a bit of a McKenzie type personality. No trouble off field.

Matt T - very good player who has cemented himself into the run - on side. Speaks extremely well and an absolute role model (as all the above blokes). Probably play full 80 and thats an advantage - he is young as well with limited experience but so what. He also is close enough to the action at 12 or 10 to objectively disect the game as opposed to forwards that are ofeten involved in set pieces and rucks and mauls. He seems a very "measured" young man

Having said the above, I like the choice of Matt To'omua

Hooper set the bench mark last year, and is doing the same this year.
Poey - I cant remember what position that guy played, he needs to show the form to unseat the encumbent, at the moment he's not playing.

Jones, Hooper, Skelton, Sio, - is a new waive starting to come through for next years RWC

 

[Viking]

Hooper, If Pocock get's back to form he takes over the Captaincy.

 

[Slim 293]

Slipper for captain! Simply because I like the idea of it being a prop!

I agree with Moore though, has he actually ever captained a team full time (not just when the regular captain goes off)? There is surely a reason for this.

Moore captained the Brumbies against the Lions in 2012 with Mowen rested for the match...........

 

[Braveheart81]

Hooper, If Pocock get's back to form he takes over the Captaincy.

That's probably a pretty good position.

If the first part plays out and Hooper is made captain, then if Pocock does enough next year after two years out with injury to unseat Hooper, then he deserves the job.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Pocock is really a great captain? I'd have him over Genia even with Genia in best form, but ultimately, if we are going to be the best team in the world, we'd need a better "captain".

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

There are a number of selection dilemmas, but not all over the paddock and none of them particularly bad.

1, Props. Hard to know which way to swing here. I would certainly be going with Slipper and probably Alexander, but I'm honestly not sure. I'm an ex lock and flanker and know fuck all about it anyway

2, Lock. Big calls to be made here. I would think that at least one of Simmons or Horwill will play, just for their experience alone. So let's say we go with Simmons. I'd then like to see Jones or Skelton start along side him, especially Jones. The kid has a massive motor, is aggressive (in a good way) and just loves the contact. He also has the right amount of desperation to play at international level too (not that the other blokes don't, but this guy seems uber motivated). We could then have big Will on the bench to cause the requisite amount of mayhem at the end of the game.

3, Half. Genia or White? Tough one that, but lean to Genia for his experience and calm head, particularly with Cooper not being out there.

4, Five-Eighth. I'm pretty solidly in the Foley camp on this one. I love what KB (Kurtley Beale) brings, but I just don't think his decision making at 10 at the top level is yet good enough. Foley is the opposite: calm, assured, doesn't overplay his hand (though attacks the line when needed) and most importantly is a reliable goal kicker.

5, Outside Centre. This is a good problem to have, in that we have Tevita and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), both of whom are quality.

6, Wing. Badge has one slot, but who to play on the other? Maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and TK plays OC?

Automatic selections for mine are: Moore, Hooper, Fardy, Cliffy, To'omua, Izzy, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (where, is the question) and Badge.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Pocock is really a great captain? I'd have him over Genia even with Genia in best form, but ultimately, if we are going to be the best team in the world, we'd need a better "captain".

You're not the only one. His on field decision making could be better. No problem with having the respect of the playing group and the refs, but game management is more his issue.

 

[Viking]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Pocock is really a great captain? I'd have him over Genia even with Genia in best form, but ultimately, if we are going to be the best team in the world, we'd need a better "captain".

Yes, I definitely disagree there. I think he is a great Captain. He has made one of two bad calls in terms of game-play and decision making but that's something he will learn quickly. In terms of being a leader on the field and having respect from team mates and referees I can't think of a better candidate. He is seen on the field often addressing his team mates, talks with respect, has a good rugby mind. So in terms of being able to lead he would be up their with Mowen. IMO.

 

[Viking]

You're not the only one. His on field decision making could be better. No problem with having the respect of the playing group and the refs, but game management is more his issue.

You beat me too it. I think the game management part he will learn quickly. I don't think you teach a person to lead and have respect, but you can learn to manage a game better.

 

[ChargerWA]

It isn't defence that concerns me with Beale though, its his penchant for individualistic play. On the wing that isn't such a problem, from your play maker his tendancy to look for all the options for himself first and foremost is why he crabs more often than not and opts for the no percentage kicks etc etc. I do not want an individual at 10, I want a skillful ball player that is always looking to set up players around him. He needs to offer an attacking threat himself and the other players need to work hard off the ball to create doubt in the defence with multiple targets, but all I have ever seen consistently from Beale is the play of a highly skilled individual.

Nail - Hammer

Interestingly enough talking with a couple of Kiwi's this morning, they both rate Foley highly. Then one of them laughed and said we would probably start Beale because Australian's dont know what good 10 play is anymore.

I really think there is something in this. The world standard for 10's is Dan Carter. Most games he is very measured. He just leads his team around the field (excellently) and allows those around him to excel. The frequency of him to glide through holes and score tries is much less prominent in his game these days, but it doesn't need to be because he gets the basics so right but is still a threat close to the defensive line.

Not saying we have to ape whatever the kiwis do, but Foley is our option closest to Carter in this regard and we would be foolish not to note the success they have achieved.

 

[Scrubber2050]

You're not the only one. His on field decision making could be better. No problem with having the respect of the playing group and the refs, but game management is more his issue.

AND if you cannot manage the game (isn't that one of the most important attributes of a captain) then you shouldn't be even considered. Therefore EVEN if Poey comes back it will be very very hard to unseat Hooper from the way he is playing over the last 2 years. Kid is also only going to get better.

Tip: Poeys ARU contract will be downgraded next time he negotiates. Simply because we have one Michael Hooper then a Hodson and a Gill

 

[BarneySF]

Also had shoulder issues which as somebody with the same issues it has effected grip strength significantly, and I always wondered if that was a contributing factor as he seemed to just fall off at times.

But whilst in effect Beale has the same positioning and results he has never exhibited the defensive class that other options have.

It isn't defence that concerns me with Beale though, its his penchant for individualistic play. On the wing that isn't such a problem, from your play maker his tendancy to look for all the options for himself first and foremost is why he crabs more often than not and opts for the no percentage kicks etc etc. I do not want an individual at 10, I want a skillful ball player that is always looking to set up players around him. He needs to offer an attacking threat himself and the other players need to work hard off the ball to create doubt in the defence with multiple targets, but all I have ever seen consistently from Beale is the play of a highly skilled individual.

I think it was Bob Dwyer who said as much about Campese - when they once thought about him playing (filling in?) at fly half. He said that although he had all the skills/attacking threat etc., he was too much of an individual. I think this was in the context of him questioning why JOC (James O'Connor) ever played at 10 last year.