Wallaby Watch 2014

[choco7]

You can only tackle players that choose to run at you, so comparing tackles made is really pointless to an extent.

comparing tackles missed isn't… you either get them down or you don't. beale has been shocking in defence and so have the brumbies three (kuridrani To'omua and lealiifano)

 

[GaffaCHinO]

You can only tackle players that choose to run at you, so comparing tackles made is really pointless to an extent.

well no you could be like Beale who plays the same position as the 2 mentioned above and hide on the wing or at Full back.........

 

[Highlander35]

Tackles missed as a percentage of tackles made, or per minute, is probably a half decent indicator.

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[Braveheart81]

The volume of tackles made by Godwin and Inman show how little ball those two teams are playing with.

It's quite remarkable how many games the Force have won without much possession (most notably the game against the Tahs).

When you look at other teams with lots of top tacklers, the lists are filled with Cheetahs, Lions and Force players which aside from the Force as mentioned above, it's not generally a good outcome if you're being forced to make that many tackles.

I like Inman and think he's had an excellent season. I doubt he'll be in the squad to begin with though.

 

[choco7]

My stats have Godwin with 106 tackles and 10 misses for a 90.56 completion and Inman the same as yours but completely agree with what you are saying..

my stat was 106 total tackles with 95 made and 11 missed… for godwin
inman was 102 total tackles with 98 made and 4 missed.

 

[Braveheart81]

well no you could be like Beale who plays the same position as the 2 mentioned above and hide on the wing or at Full back...

He's playing a very different role partly because he isn't a noted defender and because he's excellent on counter-attack.

I don't think any Tahs fans are spruiking for Beale to be the Wallaby 12 though.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

The volume of tackles made by Godwin and Inman show how little ball those two teams are playing with.

It's quite remarkable how many games the Force have won without much possession (most notably the game against the Tahs).

When you look at other teams with lots of top tacklers, the lists are filled with Cheetahs, Lions and Force players which aside from the Force as mentioned above, it's not generally a good outcome if you're being forced to make that many tackles.

I like Inman and think he's had an excellent season. I doubt he'll be in the squad to begin with though.

Except that the Defenders Beaten and Clean Breaks made by Inman Beale and Godwin are almost all the same. Beale has about 250 run meters on all the other 12 because he gets about 20-30m head start hanging out the back.

 

[choco7]

yeh well i reckon an interesting side would be
9. white
10.To'omua
11.Cummins
12. Godwin
13. INman defends at 12
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Folau

Rock solid defence with great attack from godwin folau linking wide. Inman and godwin can tackle all day.

with unbreakable defence, the worst result in a game is a draw… so we really need consider what it one of the most fundamental aspects to the game. I just don't want to see the same sieve like team announced based upon marketability…. winning games will put bums on seats in the long run. this thread just had very little consideration for both Inman and Godwin as they are unheralded players from the smallest super rugby franchises based in afl dominated country

 

[Braveheart81]

Except that the Defenders Beaten and Clean Breaks made by Inman Beale and Godwin are almost all the same. Beale has about 250 run meters on all the other 12 because he gets about 20-30m head start hanging out the back.

Where are your stats from?

Foxsports has:

Beale 4 tries, 22 tackle busts, 8 clean breaks
Inman 1 try, 20 tackle busts, 2 clean breaks
Godwin 1 try, 17 tackle busts, 1 clean break.

Beale also has 5 try assists, not sure how many the others have.

The stats reflect that Inman and Godwin are much better defenders but Beale is much better on attack. Obviously opportunities created by players around them help or hinder those stats and Beale probably gets a leg up in that area with his attacking game.

 

[Braveheart81]

yeh well i reckon an interesting side would be
9. white
10.To'omua
11.Cummins
12. Godwin
13. INman defends at 12
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Folau

Rock solid defence with great attack from godwin folau linking wide. Inman and godwin can tackle all day.

with unbreakable defence, the worst result in a game is a draw… so we really need consider what it one of the most fundamental aspects to the game. I just don't want to see the same sieve like team announced based upon marketability…. winning games will put bums on seats in the long run. this thread just had very little consideration for both Inman and Godwin as they are unheralded players from the smallest super rugby franchises based in afl dominated country

This seems a bit like many principles in physics where they are only true in a vacuum.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Where are your stats from?

Foxsports has:

Beale 4 tries, 22 tackle busts, 8 clean breaks
Inman 1 try, 20 tackle busts, 2 clean breaks
Godwin 1 try, 17 tackle busts, 1 clean break.

Beale also has 5 try assists, not sure how many the others have.

The stats reflect that Inman and Godwin are much better defenders but Beale is much better on attack. Obviously opportunities created by players around them help or hinder those stats and Beale probably gets a leg up in that area with his attacking game.

Vodacom Rugby Stats

The only major diff are the 2 is the clean breaks with Beale having 5 Inman 5 and Godwin 3.

I guess this is the issue with stats all places have different numbers, i will say about the Foxsports stats though because i watch so much of Godwin he has def made more than 1 clean break.

 

[choco7]

Where are your stats from?

Foxsports has:

Beale 4 tries, 22 tackle busts, 8 clean breaks
Inman 1 try, 20 tackle busts, 2 clean breaks
Godwin 1 try, 17 tackle busts, 1 clean break.

Beale also has 5 try assists, not sure how many the others have.

The stats reflect that Inman and Godwin are much better defenders but Beale is much better on attack. Obviously opportunities created by players around them help or hinder those stats and Beale probably gets a leg up in that area with his attacking game.

Yeh you would be right in arguing that obviously with the likes of folau and foley in your team you would be better off…. though don't you think that the game is based upon defence and attack.
Defence is half the game though only statistically calculated by one stat… so don't let the likes of try tackle bust and clean breaks undermine or drown out the weight of beales lack of defence.

besides.. the wallabies don't really need a great deal of attack… cooper proved that the wallabies were trying to much in attack. too much with little regard to defence saw us constantly on the back foot and panicking…. not even in the same ball park to NZ or SA.

With a better 10 in there side either To'omua or foley I'm sure they would be world class players

 

[farva]

My stats have Godwin with 106 tackles and 10 misses for a 90.56 completion and Inman the same as yours but completely agree with what you are saying.

The reason i would go with Godwin (as well as being from the Force) is that he has made the 106 tackles in 708 mins of rugby compared to Inmans 866 and their attacking stats are almost the same which is interesting considering the way the Force have played this year and the perception that Inman is a attacking machine this year and Godwin is down on last years form...

Id choose Godwin because he showed last year that he is a player that can break a line and spark an attack, and this year he showed he is extremely defensively strong.
Inman is a great defender, but he is a straightening type player. He is in reality challenging Kuridrani and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for the 13 as opposed to Lilo, To'omua, Godwin for 12 IMO. I dont think Inman has the same attacking flair and think he will stifle the attack if played at 12 (a la Pat McCabe a few years ago).

 

[liquor box]

You can only tackle players that choose to run at you, so comparing tackles made is really pointless to an extent.

that is why the percentage is the important part

 

[choco7]

you can read the news such as fairfax which leads with two separate headlines mentioning beale and horne and their wallaby prospects and just reiterate their garbage, or you can develop your own view of things and actually bark for those who don't sell papers because they aren't commonly know… fairfax isn't going to lead with Inman or godwin… the general populous wouldn't have a clue who they are, though statistics prove they are competitie.

I'm just asking mckenzie to give them a go in the squad at least

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeh you would be right in arguing that obviously with the likes of folau and foley in your team you would be better off…. though don't you think that the game is based upon defence and attack.
Defence is half the game though only statistically calculated by one stat… so don't let the likes of try tackle bust and clean breaks undermine or drown out the weight of beales lack of defence.

besides.. the wallabies don't really need a great deal of attack… cooper proved that the wallabies were trying to much in attack. too much with little regard to defence saw us constantly on the back foot and panicking…. not even in the same ball park to NZ or SA.

With a better 10 in there side either To'omua or foley I'm sure they would be world class players

Note that I'm not advocating for Beale to play 12 for the Wallabies.

Defence is clearly crucially important but overall balance is critical. Inman has been a better player this year because his attack has improved. I would argue that Pat McCabe has made far greater advances in that area though and I'd put him above Godwin and Inman for the Wallaby 12 jersey (although I'd be picking Foley 10, To'omua 12 right now).

Meanwhile, Godwin's attack has probably gone backwards a bit this year. Last year he was much more threatening. His defence is awesome though.

I think the two most likely options for the first test are Foley and To'omua or To'omua and Leali'ifano. Personally I wouldn't be putting Leali'ifano in the matchday 23 let alone starting because I don't think his form is anywhere close to his best right now.

 

[Benaud]

Foley To'omua also solves the critical question of goal kicker, which many of the other combinations fail to address. Lilo isn't up to it in that category, or on form in general play right now. White is the only alternative and will no doubt be used for the long range stuff but he won't play the whole game and still isn't the preferred first choice for a struggling Brumbies goal kicking unit. There is also still an outside chance he won't even start.

 

[qwerty51]

Inman is a poor man's Horne and McCabe..

 

[choco7]

Inman is a poor man's Horne and McCabe..

horne and mccabe are averaging 51 and 57 mins per game respectively atm…

 

[Braveheart81]

Horne has played 7 of the last 8 games for the Tahs. 5 extra games at the start of the season aren't going to be what pushes Inman ahead of Horne.

Again, stats are useful for supporting a particular narrative but you can guarantee someone will come up with equally compelling stats to tell the opposite story.

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