Wallaby Watch 2014

[Train Without a Station]

Unless Skelton becomes a real jumping option, or a number 8 I won't consider him a potential test player. No point picking a lock who offers some of what you want out of an 8, then needing to pick a 6 or 8 who offers some of what you want out of a lock at the expense of their primary function.

I find it laughable after all the hybrid attempt failures we have had, that people still consider it a viable option.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Unless Skelton becomes a real jumping option, or a number 8 I won't consider him a potential test player. No point picking a lock who offers some of what you want out of an 8, then needing to pick a 6 or 8 who offers some of what you want out of a lock at the expense of their primary function.

I find it laughable after all the hybrid attempt failures we have had, that people still consider it a viable option.

Completely agree 2 lineout takes all year doesn't cut the mustard for a super rugby lock let alone a test lock.

 

[Gnostic]

Unless Skelton becomes a real jumping option, or a number 8 I won't consider him a potential test player. No point picking a lock who offers some of what you want out of an 8, then needing to pick a 6 or 8 who offers some of what you want out of a lock at the expense of their primary function.

I find it laughable after all the hybrid attempt failures we have had, that people still consider it a viable option.

I would agree with you as I am an ardent believer in players fulfilling the core duties for their position. BUT, I am also a believer in the side overall being balanced. If Palu for instance is injured and TPN isn't first choice (which he shouldn't be) then who is going to make the gain line on every carry and draw multiple defenders? Horwill for all the hype about being the brusing forward, doesn't. He is more often than not tackled and gone to ground behind the gain line, as is Mowen, McCalman, Simmons and Dennis. Fardy is the only other effective tight carrying forward. Higgers makes plenty of metres on the wing and outside centre and Hooper off quick ball.

So balance the skills and with the selection of McCalman, and Fardy that will be 3 genuine jumpers and an effective sweeper in Hooper, assuming Mowen isn't selected.

However if Palu (as I think he will) is selected at 8 another jumper in the second row is required and as much as I think there are better locks in form Simmons will get the nod with Horwill on the basis of incumbency.

The problem with the Deans idea with Timani was he didn't balance the skill sets (as with a few other of his selection policies) and in one game the Wallabies were left with one genuine jumper. What I never got with Timani was the fact that he just wasn't that good with poor hanlding and application, and to top it off was used in an amateurish fashion. For instance I remember him standing the the centres on a defensive lineout with the glaringly obvious tactic of hitting the ball up to set up a ruck for the clearing kick. He was doubled tackled at the point of reception of the ball 10 metres behind the gain line so the clearing kick was under greater pressure than if he had taken the ball for the clearance directly from the lineout.

 

[Forcefield]

Cotrell has 19 lineout wins which is more than Douglas and 2 behind Dennis he is fine as a lineout option.

That's a bit embarrassing for me then, isn't it?

 

[It is what it is]

Think about using Skelton effectively off the bench.
Let's say Skelton and Higginbotham replace Douglas and Palu at the 50-60min mark. You gain a jumper in Higginbotham over Palu, to balance the loss of Douglas jumping.
Importantly what you get with Skelton is a strong advantage line runner with one of the best deep layoffs in the game, who sucks in tacklers which creates space. His bulk also bolsters our scrum when we need it most (the last 20mins), and he can make turnovers happen by counter rucking and ripping the ball off tired opposition.
Agree he's not ready to start but his best 30 mins could be invaluable in the final wash up of a test.
Don't forget his effort against the British Lions where he stirred them up and got amongst them using his size and raw strength.

 

[Ruski2003]

Cotrell has 19 lineout wins which is more than Douglas and 2 behind Dennis he is fine as a lineout option.

I like Cotrell - he has alot of agro which we seem to be missing a bit in our backrow - If he could cut out some of the dumb penalties he gives away (i know that sounds rich coming from someone who supports the reds) i think he could give it a real hot crack

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I like Cotrell - he has alot of agro which we seem to be missing a bit in our backrow - If he could cut out some of the dumb penalties he gives away (i know that sounds rich coming from someone who supports the reds) i think he could give it a real hot crack

Dumb penalties? He has conceded 6 penalties all season and 1 one was a legit tackle for which he got a yellow card.

 

[Ruski2003]

Dumb penalties? He has conceded 6 penalties all season and 1 one was a legit tackle for which he got a yellow card.

Really? I have him at 9 this season including 4 for not releasing the tackled player.....
(source - sports data)

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Really? I have him at 9 this season including 4 for not releasing the tackled player...
(source - sports data)

I'm looking at vodacom rugby stats app either way it's a little number compared to others there is also the penalty he received after he got caught on the wrong side of the ruck after smashing TPN no easy feet

 

[Ruski2003]

I'm looking at vodacom rugby stats app either way it's a little number compared to others there is also the penalty he received after he got caught on the wrong side of the ruck after smashing TPN no easy feet

This is why i like angus cotrell

 

[BDA]

I agree with Gnostic. To simply say we are not going to choose Skelton because he hasn't been a genuine option at the lineout is too narrow minded. People dont count out Palu because he's not the best line-out jumper. Its all about balance. between the 4, 5, 6, and 8 we need the right balance of line-out ability, work rate, size, physicality and an ability to bust through the defensive line. We generally fall short in the last few. Like it or not but having a tits backline (which we will have) will be useless if we dont have a few forwards that can get us on the front foot. Honestly when we measure up against the likes of the Boks forward pack we need a few guys like Palu and Skelton to get us moving forward.

Balance is the right word. I could see a forward pack something along the lines of

4.Horwill
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Palu

19. Skelton
20. Higgers

perhaps replace Horwill and Palu after 50 minutes. If a lock goes down early. Fardy to lock and Higgers to 6. The offers you some decent lineout options and plenty of go forward and impact off the bench

 

[Pfitzy]

Palu jumps at 2 for the Tahs quite a bit. So give yourselves an uppercut when you pause your blather for a second.

 

[BDA]

I cant say i perceive Palu as a genuinely strong line-out option at test level. If the stats show otherwise im happy to uppercut myself (im use to it these days)

 

[BigSteve]

I agree with Gnostic. To simply say we are not going to choose Skelton because he hasn't been a genuine option at the lineout is too narrow minded. People dont count out Palu because he's not the best line-out jumper. Its all about balance. between the 4, 5, 6, and 8 we need the right balance of line-out ability, work rate, size, physicality and an ability to bust through the defensive line. We generally fall short in the last few. Like it or not but having a tits backline (which we will have) will be useless if we dont have a few forwards that can get us on the front foot. Honestly when we measure up against the likes of the Boks forward pack we need a few guys like Palu and Skelton to get us moving forward.

Balance is the right word. I could see a forward pack something along the lines of

4.Horwill
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Palu

19. Skelton
20. Higgers

perhaps replace Horwill and Palu after 50 minutes. If a lock goes down early. Fardy to lock and Higgers to 6. The offers you some decent lineout options and plenty of go forward and impact off the bench

i completely agree with your thoughts, i think that back 5 and reserves has a very good balance and could work well under Ewen's direction.

what are your thoughts on Luke jones?

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Whilest Palu hasn't had a much game time this year hooper has more line out wins then him but I agree he is more than capable at lineout time.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They are valid points RE Skelton but you still have to remember, you are carrying a reserve whom you only want to bring on in tandem with another reserve. It's offers little flexibility which is exactly what you need from your bench.

And the comments that you play Higgers on the bench to and swap Palu and a lock with them further reinforce my point that you are stuck picking players to cover for his short comings in one fundamental aspect of his role, in other positions.

 

[BDA]

Pretty High on Luke Jones. With the loss of Douglas and Timani we have no option but to blood at least 2 new locks immediately. The first off the rank should be Jones. He looks very well rounded.

To be honest i dont see a lot of upside in giving Carter a jersey - no offence to him, he's a great Super player for the brumbies but he never really stands out for me. Beside we already have Fardy, who is a similar type of lock.

I think that link should and will go for one ball running lock in his stable of 4 locks for the world cup. Skelton fits to mold. Havent seen much of this Adam Coleman im hearing about. Does anyone know if he's starting this weekend. I'm keen to see how he fairs against the saffa packs

 

[BDA]

They are valid points RE Skelton but you still have to remember, you are carrying a reserve whom you only want to bring on in tandem with another reserve. It's offers little flexibility which is exactly what you need from your bench.

And the comments that you play Higgers on the bench to and swap Palu and a lock with them further reinforce my point that you are stuck picking players to cover for his short comings in one fundamental aspect of his role, in other positions.

ow i agree its definitely a factor that will work against his selection. I still think there just as many factors that are in his favour. i could really see him tearing up at test levels by this time next year if his development over th next 12 months is anything like the last 12..

then again he could become another Timani... who knows

 

[Moono75]

Havent seen much of this Adam Coleman im hearing about. Does anyone know if he's starting this weekend. I'm keen to see how he fairs against the saffa packs

Coleman started against the Rebels and the Bulls. Force may opt for Steenkamp to start against the Cheetahs for obvious reasons. Coleman has been good, big unit, will only get better with more game time, hasn't disgraced himself.

 

[Bairdy]

I agree with Gnostic. To simply say we are not going to choose Skelton because he hasn't been a genuine option at the lineout is too narrow minded. People dont count out Palu because he's not the best line-out jumper. Its all about balance. between the 4, 5, 6, and 8 we need the right balance of line-out ability, work rate, size, physicality and an ability to bust through the defensive line. We generally fall short in the last few. Like it or not but having a tits backline (which we will have) will be useless if we dont have a few forwards that can get us on the front foot. Honestly when we measure up against the likes of the Boks forward pack we need a few guys like Palu and Skelton to get us moving forward.

Balance is the right word. I could see a forward pack something along the lines of

4.Horwill
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Palu

19. Skelton
20. Higgers

perhaps replace Horwill and Palu after 50 minutes. If a lock goes down early. Fardy to lock and Higgers to 6. The offers you some decent lineout options and plenty of go forward and impact off the bench

Not having a dig at you BDA, but it is quite fanciful to pick a lock who has only accumulated 2(?) lineout takes in super rugby thus far. What other Tier 1 nation in the world picks locks who hardly jump?

All Blacks: Whitelock & Retallick
Sprinboks: Etzebeth & Kruger/van der Merwe
Poms: Launchbury & Lawes (IMO the best lock pairing in the world currently)
France: Pape & Maestri
Ireland: O'Connell & Toner

I'm all for Skelton having exposure in an extended 40-man Wallabies squad, and being a long-term, project player for the Wallabies coaches, ready in a year or twos time.

But if and when one of Simmons and Horwill go down injured (and Link does not play Douglas because he's going overseas), hypothetically do we really want to chop and change the back 5 to accommodate Skelton, especially if the player/s that has to be omitted is playing well?

That is why I believe Jones should be blooded first, off the bench for one of Simmons or Horwill. And I would rather see Carter (for all his workrate and motor, he lacks impact) after Jones, despite the potential of Skelton and Coleman.

Also, I think depending on Palu to play a large number of tests this year is foolhardy, based on the way he's been managed this year. Good thing we have able replacements in McCalman and Higgers.