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Wallaby Watch 2014

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BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Comments from Link re kicking duties are interesting. They suggest to me that Link clearly saw Lilo as an important part of the 23 due to his kicking form. That's probably changed on current form.

It's a real shame Lilo is not playing 10 for the brumbies atm. Perhaps he should have signed with the Rebels.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It's interesting how performances of certain players can seemingly have a big impact on the chances of players in other positions. This seemed to happen in spades over the weekend.

Foley and Beale's shocking kicking performance would seemingly improve the chances of both Nic White and Christian Leali'ifano and hurt Will Genia's. Whilst I don't think Leali'ifano will be in the starting team as his form is a way off his best, the poor goalkicking by Foley and Beale could improve Leali'ifano's chance to be on the bench ahead of someone like McCabe.

Meanwhile, it surely hurts Will Genia's chance to start with Nic White becoming easily the best option as the first choice kicker.

Adam Ashley-Cooper's 2014 form has been arguably the best of his career and he is certainly the form 13 in Australia. The shortage of wingers makes it more likely that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be pushed out to the wing and Kuridrani will start at 13. Rob Horne's form in the last couple of weeks could severely dent Kuridrani's chances however. It's now fairly tempting to leave AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at his favourite position of 13 and start Horne on the wing where he has scored tries and been punishing in defence.

Whether it ends up being AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne (or potentially McCabe) on the wing), the other two are going to be Folau and Cummins and whatever option is chosen results in below average kicking from the back three. When Folau is easily the best kicking option amongst your back three, it's got to be something of a worry.

If Beale (or Foley) ends up at 10, the Waratahs tactic of using the winger to defend in the midfield in general play and drop Beale back to have two fullbacks with improved kicking could be more appealing to McKenzie.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
@Braveheart81 - there is nothing wrong with Folau's ability to kick, he has a nice controlled punt that gets decent distance. His problem is knowing when to kick, and I would think that is something that needs to be addressed by coaches at Super and Test level. I think it's a hangover from his League days, where he would hardly, if ever, have needed to kick.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
I think cummins has fallen down the pecking order imo


I agree. I also think its going to be Cummins V. Horne (maybe even McCabe too) fighting for a wing spot as they play a similar style. So I don't think its unfair to push AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the wing as he has a history of playing well there, IMO its unlikely Kuridrani will miss out.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
@Braveheart81 - there is nothing wrong with Folau's ability to kick, he has a nice controlled punt that gets decent distance. His problem is knowing when to kick, and I would think that is something that needs to be addressed by coaches at Super and Test level. I think it's a hangover from his League days, where he would hardly, if ever, have needed to kick.

I agree he has a decent punt that is generally well directed. I was more making the point that if Folau is easily the best kicker in your back three, you might consider it a bit of a worry.

I agree. I also think its going to be Cummins V. Horne (maybe even McCabe too) fighting for a wing spot as they play a similar style. So I don't think its unfair to push AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the wing as he has a history of playing well there, IMO its unlikely Kuridrani will miss out.

A few weeks ago I would have said Kuridrani would be odds on favourite to play 13 with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) pushed out to the wing. Kuridrani's form is getting less convincing though and the improvement of someone like Horne is providing more options n the wing.

Put it this way, on current form, if we had walk up starters on the wing, it would be AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) playing 13, not Kuridrani.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
I cant believe some of you are saying that Cummins has fallen down the pecking order. He is in great form. Played with a lot of heart and aggression on the weekend (horror kick aside). I want to see him in Green and Gold. If his form was poor I'd be happy to consider alternatives, but his form has been good.

Horne has been in good form but he's not been considered a winger until this season and I cant see him usurping Cummins, a specialist winger that performed very well for us last season and has continued to standout, in a backline that gets very limited opportunity.

Comparing the form of outside backs is different super teams become slightly blurred by the performance of the team. The Tahs backs get a lot of good opportunities to score largely due to the front foot ball their pack delivers and the general quality of distributers in the team. Cummins is playing on the end of a limited backline, getting not much ball
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Re Folau, I would like to see him add an Up and Under kick and chase to his repertoire. He is so good under the highball he needs to learn how to use that skill un the counterattack, if the chance presents itself
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I cant believe some of you are saying that Cummins has fallen down the pecking order. He is in great form. Played with a lot of heart and aggression on the weekend (horror kick aside). I want to see him in Green and Gold. If his form was poor I'd be happy to consider alternatives, but his form has been good.

Horne has been in good form but he's not been consider a winger until this season and I cant see him usurping Cummins, a specialist winger that performed very well for us last season and has continued to standout, in a backline that gets very limited opportunity.

Comparing the form of outside backs is different super teams become slightly blurred by the performance of the team. The Tahs backs get a lot of good opportunities to score largely due to the front foot ball their pack delivers and the general quality of distributers in the team. Cummins is playing on the end of a limited backline, getting not much ball

I don't know if any of that was directed at me or just Hoolly Doolly who said that Cummins had fallen down the pecking order, but I specifically didn't mention him because I'm assuming he's secured one wing spot already.

I think the wings will either be Cummins and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Cummins and McCabe or Cummins and Horne.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Not directed at you Braveheart. directed at Hoolly Doolly and Seb v's comments. Although the last paragraph on my comment is probably relevant to your response to Seb v. In comparing the recent performances of Kuridrani and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), its fair to point out the attacking opportunities the tahs outside backs are getting compared to the brumbies opportunities (at least during the south African tour).
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Nah, Cummins is the only work rate winger we have at the moment, the rest just don't do the chase work consistently

Haven't seen a Force game for several weeks. His work rate must have improved a great deal in that time to be classed high work rate. Will all depend how Link chooses to utilise them.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Look, if our forwards are fit enough, and we have any combination of Cummins/Horne/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Kuridrani on the wings, then the opposition would be mad to kick to Folau because our counterattack will carve them up.

If he's given the directive to kick out of his 22 at all times, then all well and good if our lineout is going alright. But I hardly think Link is going to go for a kick-first approach.

Folau can chew off 40 metres with a kick to touch, and any of those wingers will want to chase fucking hard to make it count.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
There is no doubt AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s form is better then Kuridrani's. My above comments relate to the balance of the team, which work in Kuridrani's favour and work against Horne, Cummins and McCabe - as I feel Horne, Cummins and McCabe all offer a similar skill set - Hard and direct.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has experience at wing and fullback, and can kick okay too. So I would say a wing spot is his.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Comments from Link re kicking duties are interesting. They suggest to me that Link clearly saw Lilo as an important part of the 23 due to his kicking form. That's probably changed on current form.

It's a real shame Lilo is not playing 10 for the brumbies atm. Perhaps he should have signed with the Rebels.

Any evaluation of a kicking specialist's current form should include his kicking success rate, out of hand, restarts, kicks for goal, the whole schmear.

This is not an argument for or against any particular player, but it seems to me that Australian teams generally need to start to put a proper value on a kicker's ability to kick, as well as the other aspects of the required skillset for the position he happens to play. Radical, I know. :)

Kicking matters even in Sevens, it is hugely important in Test match rugby, I am sick and tired of us losing games we could have won because we missed goals, kicked restarts out on the full, kicked too long (Mike Harris against Scotland) and did not gain enough distance with our touch-finders.


It's all very well to run, pass, tackle, and beat players, but it is equally important to do the specialist stuff. Props are judged primarily on their ability to scrummage, or should be. Kickers should be judged to a fair extent on their ability to kick. Or should be.
 
D

daz

Guest
There is no doubt AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s form is better then Kuridrani's.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has experience at wing and fullback, and can kick okay too. So I would say a wing spot is his.

At this stage of his career, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) only ticks one of the three things needed to be a Test winger - Finishing ability.

He lacks the other two critical abilities - Pace, and Pace.

I would absolutely have him at 13 though. I am not sold on Kuridrani's CV as a Test 13.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
What fucking pecking order has Cummins fallen down? He's the only specialist winger in the squad. There's only one other player in the squad who's even playing on the wing. An absolute gee up to say he's not close to certain of a start.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
If Hooper is appointed ahead of Moore you would really have to wonder what it is about Moore which stops him being placed in captaincy roles.

My view on Moore not getting captaincy roles is the same as why I do not think that Rocky Elsom made a good captain and why I don't think Poey makes a good captain.

They are all very focused players. They focus on being the best they can be in their individual roles and at times get blinded to the big picture. They are all good leaders but during a game of rugby they are very much focused on one thing and one thing only.

As to who I would make captain - Buggered if I know.
 
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