Wallaby Locks

[Pfitzy]

Not sure how you can develop locks at junior levels - some kids are going to grow past their peers during teen years, and even add a bit of size or height past 19.

Part of the issue with rugby's "all shapes and sizes" aspect is you're going to pick the tall kid for lock and the fat kid for prop. With the shallow pool we have, there is no real competition for those spots and I don't think there is a real appetite from kids to play the dirty positions either. The end result is poor quality of available talent in the T5.

It could be fixed if the schools rugby competitions were actually combined to increase the size of the competitive pool and talent could be more readily identified.

 

[I like to watch]

I don't know which junior teams you've been involved with but I never had that experience.. we always lifted the tallest bloke on the team, who also happened to be close to the heaviest..

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree..


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How long since you have been involved in juniors?
In many strong junior teams,the hooker is the 4th best back rower.
Props that are mobile are more valued than a heavy non mobile strong scrummagers.
Locks are generally the best of the rest.
Again,mobility is preferred to height.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is the 15 or 16 year old pot plant likely to be an athlete as an adult though or are they more likely to be obese?

I'd be interested to know what the players who end up as the best test scrummagers looked like as teenagers relative to players who would be the best scrummagers as teenagers (if the laws allowed them to push more).

 

[fatprop]

Not sure how you can develop locks at junior levels - some kids are going to grow past their peers during teen years, and even add a bit of size or height past 19.

Part of the issue with rugby's "all shapes and sizes" aspect is you're going to pick the tall kid for lock and the fat kid for prop. With the shallow pool we have, there is no real competition for those spots and I don't think there is a real appetite from kids to play the dirty positions either. The end result is poor quality of available talent in the T5.

It could be fixed if the schools rugby competitions were actually combined to increase the size of the competitive pool and talent could be more readily identified.

I think you don't do specific development for most, just the basic forward technique and skills.

Get the cleanout, body height, tackling technique & workrate sorted and specifics will come later.

 

[Pfitzy]

Ultimately, Tight Five players have to WANT it enough if they're going to play there.

 

[Chris McCracken]

But..... lineouts.

If you can't figure out a way to win lineouts without tall guys at a junior level, you're not trying very hard.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I don't know which junior teams you've been involved with but I never had that experience.. we always lifted the tallest bloke on the team, who also happened to be close to the heaviest..

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree..

You are definitely in the minority with regard today's junior coaches. If tall guys are being lifted, they're generally stringbeans. I see it at all levels in the younger juniors. It starts to get a bit better at 17s or thereabouts.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Particularly at rep level though, that's probably the prerogative. If you've got a glut of quality backrowers, some of which are big enough to play lock, you'll probably select one there if they're better than the locks.

I don't really get the premise that rep coaches should the ones trying to develop senior locks. Should rep selectors overlook better junior players and pick on the basis of who they think might fit the requirements further down the line?

By the same logic would that mean overlooking smaller players who might excel at junior levels but never be likely to make it in the senior game?

I don't have any problem with what you're saying here. Rep coaches have an onus to win and to get players picked at the next level up. They pick teams that do that. It doesn't mean it isn't stifling development of certain players, though.

The issue lies with the rules - not the coaches. Mind you, I don't have a safe solution for that, either.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Not sure how you can develop locks at junior levels - some kids are going to grow past their peers during teen years, and even add a bit of size or height past 19.

Part of the issue with rugby's "all shapes and sizes" aspect is you're going to pick the tall kid for lock and the fat kid for prop. With the shallow pool we have, there is no real competition for those spots and I don't think there is a real appetite from kids to play the dirty positions either. The end result is poor quality of available talent in the T5.

It could be fixed if the schools rugby competitions were actually combined to increase the size of the competitive pool and talent could be more readily identified.

These are excellent points. There are no easy answers. But it's clear that in countries where the pool is bigger, the skills appear to be transferring better and at a younger age.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Particularly at rep level though, that's probably the prerogative. If you've got a glut of quality backrowers, some of which are big enough to play lock, you'll probably select one there if they're better than the locks.

I don't really get the premise that rep coaches should the ones trying to develop senior locks. Should rep selectors overlook better junior players and pick on the basis of who they think might fit the requirements further down the line?

By the same logic would that mean overlooking smaller players who might excel at junior levels but never be likely to make it in the senior game?

Yes, you're right, which is why, imo development camps like the Waratahs fat kids camp for props are a great idea. There should be one for locks.

 

[Scrubber2050]

How long since you have been involved in juniors?
In many strong junior teams,the hooker is the 4th best back rower.
Props that are mobile are more valued than a heavy non mobile strong scrummagers.
Locks are generally the best of the rest.
Again,mobility is preferred to height.

Height is important - the trick is to find the tall timber that have the overall skills.

Don't see many 5ft 10in locks in international rugby, even if they are wonderfully mobile. example : Michael Hooper

 

[fairplay]

I can see both sides of the argument regarding junior rugby tall locks vs faster backrower/lock types.

Back in the day, before lifting, it did not matter so much. A taller gumby could usually at least slap the ball back.

IMO experience that taller the player the more uncoordinated they are in younger grades.

It takes a while for their bodies and reflexes to catch up to their height.

 

[Scrubber2050]

A mate of mine who has coached at reasonably high levels particularly at schools level once said to me that you need to find a kid about 6 ft 6in - 6ft 10 in. Then you train him to be a rugby lock,

 

[Chris McCracken]

Yes, you're right, which is why, imo development camps like the Waratahs fat kids camp for props are a great idea. There should be one for locks.

That's for all potential tight five players.

 

[ACT Waterboy]

Personally I think Rory Arnold, the new brumbies lock could be a potential world cup bolter. He is big and aggressive, a genuine lineout option and I'm sure could hold his own in the scrums.

Thoughts?

Certainly has more potential than the likes of simmons

 

[Scrubber2050]

Personally I think Rory Arnold, the new brumbies lock could be a potential world cup bolter. He is big and aggressive, a genuine lineout option and I'm sure could hold his own in the scrums.

Thoughts?

Certainly has more potential than the likes of simmons

Disagree re more potential than Simmons. He's a huge unit, still fairly raw and likes a bite or two However tough bugger and with experience will be very handy

Nice bloke from the Northern Rivers of NSW . His brother is also a huge unit and believe playing for Bond University

 

[Bairdy]

Personally I think Rory Arnold, the new brumbies lock could be a potential world cup bolter. He is big and aggressive, a genuine lineout option and I'm sure could hold his own in the scrums.

Thoughts?

Certainly has more potential than the likes of simmons

I don't think Cheika is going to gamble on a lock that has played 0 games of Super Rugby. Not for the RWC anyway

 

[I like to watch]

No he won't,but if a rookie lock excels in the 2015 season, he is a great chance I reckon.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

There is certainly a place beckoning for a young lock who has a breakout season, in my view. The current performance of our second row group doesn't suggest to me that any of them have a starting place locked down, with the possible exception of Simmons. I'd really like to see a couple of these raw boned lads step up and put the shits up both the opposition and the other Aussies this Super rugby season, because we've always seen squad bolters and I don't believe this RWC year will be any different.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Personally I think Rory Arnold, the new brumbies lock could be a potential world cup bolter. He is big and aggressive, a genuine lineout option and I'm sure could hold his own in the scrums.

Thoughts?

Certainly has more potential than the likes of simmons

That's a big call atm. He really has to earn and keep a spot with the Brumbies first of all. But I hope you're right.