Wallaby Locks

[TOCC]

No major weaknesses but overall not quite good enough, Wykes had the chance to display his credentials through the NRC but failed to do so, I thought he was outplayed on a number of occasions.


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[Ruggo]

I hear what you're saying, but why are Etsebeth and Rettallic so good? They are still a few years shy of that mark. There's more to it than just age, IMO its all about the way players are coached to play in Australia. People keep telling them that they only have to get parity in the set piece and that their performance in the open is what counts.

What are the junior laws like in SA and NZ compared with us? Do their systems teach the technical aspects of specialized positions earlier than us? Not being critical because junior rugby in Australia has a very proud reputation of being a very safe contact sport but things such as crotch binding for locks has been controversial in the past. I guess the intelligent question is are players not being developed into the full suite of technical rugby that is standard at senior level early enough and given the right period of time to develop them. Keep in mind the broader ruby community where some unions just don't have the player numbers for a large range in grades they can fill. This could be an issue that just might be norrowing our talent pool when prepping players for potential elite rugby.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't know why Wykes isn't in consideration. He's no John Eales, but he doesn't really have any major weaknesses, does he?

Probably lacks grunt above Super Rugby level I reckon. He's pretty athletic, can jump in the lineout and is good around the park, but he'd probably lack the physical presence in comparison to other locks at the top level. We've never tested it of course, but it's a hunch.

 

[Chris McCracken]

What are the junior laws like in SA and NZ compared with us? Do their systems teach the technical aspects of specialized positions earlier than us? Not being critical because junior rugby in Australia has a very proud reputation of being a very safe contact sport but things such as crotch binding for locks has been controversial in the past. I guess the intelligent question is are players not being developed into the full suite of technical rugby that is standard at senior level early enough and given the right period of time to develop them. Keep in mind the broader ruby community where some unions just don't have the player numbers for a large range in grades they can fill. This could be an issue that just might be norrowing our talent pool when prepping players for potential elite rugby.

The under 19s laws are the same. I think we have a different focus. We traditionally have a focus on backplay and the breakdown with little on the scrum. A lot of coaches seem to concentrate on finding ways to win in younger age groups with tricks, as well, rather than winning through application of basics.

This is what I think is at odds with SA, NZ and the rest of the world. I feel like in those countries the 19s rules are used for safety, while here they are used as a manipulation device.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I don't know why Wykes isn't in consideration. He's no John Eales, but he doesn't really have any major weaknesses, does he?

Personally, I feel like we've got plenty of guys like him. Lighter guys with high work rates well suited to playing on the left.

 

[Brendan Hume]

The under 19s laws are the same. I think we have a different focus. We traditionally have a focus on backplay and the breakdown with little on the scrum. A lot of coaches seem to concentrate on finding ways to win in younger age groups with tricks, as well, rather than winning through application of basics.

This is what I think is at odds with SA, NZ and the rest of the world. I feel like in those countries the 19s rules are used for safety, while here they are used as a manipulation device.

People have told me that NZ have dispensations and crotch bind from u14 or u16? Can't be sure...
Agree with the rest of your assessment


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[Joe Blow]

The challenege players like Coleman and Arnold face is that they have to assert themselves as first choice in their Super Rugby sides before they have a chance of really going further.

It's about convincing the coach that on a consistent basis they're better than the dependable types like Sam Wykes who get the job done at Super Rugby level but have never been likely to progress to test level.

Hopefully Coleman does that this year at the Force.

That is a challenge but some of our best Wallabies have been plucked from obscurity to end up playing big roles and having outstanding careers. Someone like Coleman just may have the attributes to perform very well at the highest level given the chance.
We really need to find a hard nosed bopper to partner Simmons in the row.
Dependable is not going to get it done at the pointy end of the RWC.

 

[wamberal]

That is a challenge but some of our best Wallabies have been plucked from obscurity to end up playing big roles and having outstanding careers. Someone like Coleman just may have the attributes to perform very well at the highest level given the chance.
We really need to find a hard nosed bopper to partner Simmons in the row.
Dependable is not going to get it done at the pointy end of the RWC.

Or even in the Pool stages. We are absolutely no certainties to be there at the pointy end.

 

[Chris McCracken]

People have told me that NZ have dispensations and crotch bind from u14 or u16? Can't be sure.
Agree with the rest of your assessment

Perhaps they do. We have exemptions for leg lifting in lineouts from U16. I've never been able to understand the problem with crotch binding. I hope that we get a change on that at some point.

For me, the issue is the 1.5m push and the reset on 45 degree wheel. Not the crotch binds

 

[Strewthcobber]

Perhaps they do. We have exemptions for leg lifting in lineouts from U16. I've never been able to understand the problem with crotch binding. I hope that we get a change on that at some point.

For me, the issue is the 1.5m push and the reset on 45 degree wheel. Not the crotch binds

My impression is that crotch v hip binding has much more impact on the props then the 2nd row. Saw info somewhere (source?) that both lateral and vertical forces on the front row are higher with the crotch bind.

I certainly had no problem transitioning.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I played lock a reasonable amount in juniors and it was hip binding until the end of U/16's. Once I started playing colts it was crutch binding and I greatly preferred it. I think you get a tighter bind (ooo err) and a better scrum formation.

 

[Pfitzy]

If you don't have your hands between the prop's legs, then either his legs are too close together, or you're not a lock. Get around and "answer the phone" - its why I like rugby shorts that still have pockets; once the lock gets his claws into the pocket, he can't let go.

 

[Dctarget]

As I understand it, it's an U19's law that you can't crutch bind.

 

[Pfitzy]

Which is fucked - how else are they going to learn proper technique?

The issue comes when they crotch bind and reach forward to hook the jersey, which weakens the grip, instead of around to grab the pocket.

Besides which, the new engagement sequence with pre-binding for props should have everyone off the ground for good.

 

[Brendan Hume]

It's all about depowering the scrum. Personally I don't think it's safer (the Bajada scrum packs using this technique), but that's the IRB U19 law variation as it exists. As mentioned in a previous post - I think NZ have a dispensation on this law in their juniors, although I'm not sure at what age it starts.
Safety obviously needs to be the paramount concern, although I'm sure this could be managed in Australia, even if it meant an extra module in SmartRugby for coaches of players from u15 up based solely around the scrum, as well as improved referee training (I've seen some awful examples of poor refereeing in junior scrums where the scrum was unsafe because the ref didn't understand the scrum)


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[Dctarget]

Well I always noticed this when ever I played against a NZ school boy team, there was always an issue because they could do certain things that we couldn't. For instance crutch binding and also leg lifting, NZ teams could lift on the legs a lot earlier (as in younger) than Aus teams were allowed to.

 

[qwerty51]

Well I always noticed this when ever I played against a NZ school boy team, there was always an issue because they could do certain things that we couldn't. For instance crutch binding and also leg lifting, NZ teams could lift on the legs a lot earlier (as in younger) than Aus teams were allowed to.

Well there's our fucking problem.

 

[fatprop]

The locks for the RWC will be Horwill, Cater, Simmons & Skelton

Only injury will change that

Everyone one else listed is potential only and hasn't been blooded

 

[Wilson]

The only potential change is that one of them may miss out to Jones if he's seen as effective back row cover, but I don't think he's there yet. Likewise Dennis could shank one of the spots if he goes well at lock this year, but in that case he's more likely to be included at the expense of a back rower.

 

[fatprop]

The only potential change is that one of them may miss out to Jones if he's seen as effective back row cover, but I don't think he's there yet. Likewise Dennis could shank one of the spots if he goes well at lock this year, but in that case he's more likely to be included at the expense of a back rower.

yeah, a possibility - I would also list Fardy as that 5/6 option, but then we get to have the threads going berserk about not taking enough specialist locks