Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Benaud]

Is there any chance at all we can play a 6-2 bench with Gits and Mitchell as the only backs? I haven't watched any France stuff so no idea if Giteau has played any HB recently.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The "being good at premiership level is no different" argument doesn't stack up because he was named the best player in the competition by BT Sport. It would have been like not picking Folau in 2014 when he was named player of the year in Super Rugby

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He was named to the BT Premiership Dream Team - not nominated for player of the year.

Full team

BT DREAM TEAM
Anthony Watson - Bath Rugby
Christian Wade - Wasps
Jonathan Joseph - Bath Rugby
Henry Slade - Exeter Chiefs
Sinoti Sinoti - Newcastle Falcons
George Ford - Bath Rugby
Joe Simpson - Wasps
Matt Mullan - Wasps
Jamie George - Saracens
Tomas Francis - Exeter Chiefs
Graham Kitchener - Leicester Tigers
Dean Mumm - Exeter Chiefs - Captain
Dave Ewers - Exeter Chiefs
Francois Louw - Bath Rugby
Nathan Hughes - Wasps

 

[Highlander35]

Yep. Significant bias towards players who played a lot of games. Obviously there are a couple who buck that trend like JJ and Ford, but in general that's players who played more Premiership games instead of European or International games.

 

[fatprop]

He was named to the BT Premiership Dream Team - not nominated for player of the year.

Full team

Yep, and captain. Just maybe he isn't as crap as some think, and probably not as good as others think.



Typos by SwiftKey, errors in tone by me

 

[fatprop]

Yep. Significant bias towards players who played a lot of games. Obviously there are a couple who buck that trend like JJ and Ford, but in general that's players who played more Premiership games instead of European or International games.

Does that make it a stats based team, like the foxsport's fantasy stuff?



Typos by SwiftKey, errors in tone by me

 

[Train Without a Station]

As somebody noted also, plenty of players have been the stand out in teams of the year in super teams but not been suitable test players and based on the fact that Mumm has played close to 20 tests and never looked like he really belonged, I'd say he's there too.

It's too easy to get carried away with club form. Even more so in the NH where top players miss games for internationals and are rested for others.

Compare that to super rugby. The reds finished something like 12th yet when you faced them they had up to 15 internationally capped players in the team every week barring injury.

 

[fatprop]

Yep, it would be wonderful to have someone with experience playing better

Typos by SwiftKey, errors in tone by me

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Thank F*ck Mark Ella isn't selecting the team..

Dead right, though I can't get to his article through the paywall. I think Mark Ella is one of the greatest rugby players to ever pull on the boots, but I disagree with the team he put up.

 

[Gnostic]

Just to generate some discussion, here's mark Ella's starting xv in the Aus this morning:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Dennis - c
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Beale (blind side)
12. Too mua
13. Kuridraniin
14. Ashley-cooper (open)
15. Folau


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I can see what Ella is trying to do there with Beale on the wing to give a genuine kicking option in the back three, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) another avergae kicking option.

I think it doesn't work with the structures that Chieka uses with Beale, Foley/ To'omua dropping back to take defensive kicks and the wingers up to defend. It would be a more traditional structure akin to what Dwyer used in 1991-1994. I certainly prefer that structure but wouldn't have Beale in the side regardless of form.

The one selection I just don't understand is that of Dennis to start. The stats just don't support him as a starting player over Fardy, McMahon, Jones or Higgers. Indeed I wouldn't have him on the bench.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Or the lack of jumping options around Skelton. Fardy, Higgers and Pocock is a more balanced back row.

 

[cyclopath]

Highlanders set a game plan against the Tahs and got the bacon.
Highlanders set a game plan against the Canes that involved short line outs and also got the bacon.
Now I have never said only short line outs, I have always said variations, and referenced game plans. Game plans.
Gee that was a good game, high intensity, high pace, high retention.

Very well coached outfit, those Clan fellas. Kudos to Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown (and others). Outstanding strategic approach to the season and finals.

 

[Dave Beat]

Very well coached outfit, those Clan fellas. Kudos to Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown (and others). Outstanding strategic approach to the season and finals.

Yes coaching, coaching can play such a huge part - last 2 games, were planned, and the team executed. Gee ABs are looking good for the RWC.

 

[TOCC]

The "being good at premiership level is no different" argument doesn't stack up because he was named the best player in the competition by BT Sport. It would have been like not picking Folau in 2014 when he was named player of the year in Super Rugby
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Dan Leo plays for London Irish

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[waiopehu oldboy]

So I'm preparing an article based on statistics on what a successful pack yields per game and on that basis looking at what combinations we can use to achieve as close to that as possible...............

Really looking forward to that article.

Obviously the numbers for NZ & SA are also impacted by injury & suspension but your raw data supports my gut feeling over several seasons now that the Aus model of S15 primary contracts with ARU top-ups for the favoured few results in your best players being flogged during S15 without regard to what physical or mental shape they're in come the Int'l season.

Even the SA teams seem to have a loose arrangement with SARU to rest players in the interests of them not being burnt out by their Super Rugby workloads, although that seems to be a bit more hit & miss in reality than theory.

I'm not & would never suggest that the NZ model is inherently superior, just that it works for us in ways & for reasons that probably aren't available to ARU & to a lesser degree SARU.

Again, really looking forward to your finished work, it's the kind of analysis that sets G&GR apart from certain other rugby sites.............

 

[swingpass]

Dan Leo plays for London Irish

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He does !

 

[Hawko]

Because he was good at super level for years but always inadequate at test level. What's different about being good at Premiership level?

And most importantly importantly, how many of the best line out technicians are 196cm?

I don't think Read is much more than 196 and he is the best lineout technician in the best team in the world. Judging someone's form and abilities now based on your opinion of him three years ago seems likely to have a high likelihood of error.

I agree with a fair bit of what you say, particularly about resting players and some experimentation, but if you are recommending a completely new "backup" 15 then I would take exception. That would be akin to having a second rate Super XV side running around in which a few players who might have the goods to play at the higher level don't get an opportunity to shine because of the other lesser players around them. The Reds this year come to mind where it has been argued that certain players look to be out of form but really they were suffering from being in a team that as a whole wasn't amongst the top sides.

I think a core of the first 15 needs to start in all matches, with perhaps a couple of the newbies starting in the 'éasier' games and a couple more on the bench. Or alternatively, start up to 5 or 6 but have a very strong bench to close the game out. Give the new players a chance to show what they can (or can't) do in what is still a strong all round side.

I try (usually unsuccessfully) not to be too verbose in my posts. I, too, wouldn't post two different teams. What I would do after the few weeks preparation would be to pick a first 15 to start against SA (assuming they don't send a back-up squad like they did last time. If they do then we would want to adjust our strategy too.) Assuming we face the full strength team we pick our "best" 15 and then think who we need to try out as alternatives and put them on the bench. For the second game against Argentina I'd take eight of the best 15 and put them on the bench as insurance and then choose my starters to resolve close choices. For example, I'd start Fardy, Palu and Pocock against SA with Higgers and Hooper on the bench and then start Higgers, McCalman and Hooper against Argentina with Pocock and Fardy on the bench. Each would get about 80 to 100 mins to show their wares. I'm running a 6:2 bench so its a bit harder in the backs, but I would pair Phipps and Cooper for SA and Genia and Phipps for Argentina, with White on the bench for one or both games. I would start Giteau against SA and To'omua against Argies. Mitchell must play one full game, preferably against SA.

After that its time to consider what we have seen in the first two games and then pick the best team to play NZ

I'll leave the rest of my team plans so you can have a play with your own ideas, but I hope the principle is clear.

Additionally, as I suggested a few posts ago, I would make sure all those who were on the squad fringe but didn't make it would get a game against USA to:

1. Lock them away for Australia.
2. Give some of the young guns a taste of test rugby (just like NZ do) and have them working in the squad.

Those players would then go back to Oz while the squad continued to the UK.

@Hawko, you seem to have a soft spot for the players returning from the NH. First Mumm and now Matt Giteau.

I hope we don't see both Giteau and Beale in the 23. In all likelihood both Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be in the 23 and maybe starting. That'd have potentially 4 versatile players in the backline at the one time. Sounds like an Aus cricket team full of all rounders in place of specialists to me. Used to be tried a fair bit but with little to no success.

Give me specialists please, with a minimum, maybe one or two at most, versatile players who cover multiple spots but at a lesser standard. Only Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would get a run in my team.

Here's hoping some good old fashioned SH common sense will prevail.

Call me mad if you like but I want a good look at Giteau in the 12 jumper. Right now I think To'omua is the better 12, but I am a person with an opinion and no data. That is, I am just a person with an opinion.

And I want to see Mumm for 60-80 minutes to compare him to Simmons, Arnold and Dennis. Right now I see him as the back-up to Simmons; Dennis and Horwill are well down the order and Arnold is very green, though he would be the fourth lock in my RWC squad from what I've seen this year.

Beale is the back-up 15. Neither AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Mitchell have the necessary attacking flair to inject themselves into the line like Beale and Folau can. And the gameplan Cheika will play requires a running/passing 15. Distressing as this is to 50% of the posters on this site, its a fact. Cheika does not play safety-first rugby - if you wanted that then Foley should have got the national coaching role.

 

[Marcelo]

Very well coached outfit, those Clan fellas. Kudos to Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown (and others). Outstanding strategic approach to the season and finals.

That's very strange. For years I have heard the Kiwis say that Jamie Joseph is the worst rugby coach in the world. Now he is the Prophet Muhammad

 

[Ruggo]

I wouldn't say hate, but did he have the required 60 Wallaby caps? No, about half of what's required, so let's bring him back for a couple of games at the end of the season to make him eligible. Guys like Jones and Coleman put in full super rugby seasons, and frankly should feel ripped off.

I couldn't agree more. Frankly it really stinks.

 

[Ruggo]

Would love to see a in house trial played. See if some of the selections stack up.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I see him as a better "10/12" than To'omua who I see as more of a "12/10"

Is that like Sio is a better 3/1 and Holmes a better 1/3? Think if they are on the bench, it will be 17 Sio, and 18 Holmes.