Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Hawko]

Don't think he needs to be in the train on squad to be able to contribute though. I saw where Cheika has said there might (will) be a role for George Smith later in the campaign. It read to me that he might join the coaching/management side, perhaps informally, because of his inside knowledge of the French players and NH style of play. If that's what Cheika wants from Mumm, then he could have contributed in a similar manner rather than as would appear keep a better performed local player in Jones out of the squad. In any case, I'm not sure that that is the reason Mumm is in the side. Cheika has said that he wants to pit three full sets of tight fives against each other in order to find the best operators and combinations. That sounds like he sees Mumm as one of the top six locks.

To me, it is baffling that a player off the bench for the Waratahs is preferred to either of Jones or Coleman who have put in the hard yards all year long in our competition.

I think that its very simple as to why Mumm is in the squad. As one of the best locks in the UK competition, he clearly has impeccable credentials. People think he is the same player who left Oz two years ago and that he has learnt nothing subsequently. The reports from the UK indicate that is not the case. He is a genuine NH-style lock, something his detractors over the years could never accept. He also has a huge engine, always has had.

Cheika, with his northern hemisphere experience, would be cognisant of this.

He played off the bench at the Tahs because he couldn't be selected for the finals and because he had not played in the team system all year. In the Wallaby squad I think he will shine.

On form, its hard to understand why Jones wasn't in front of Dennis and Horwill (though Horwill is primarily a bruiser lock as Skelton and Arnold are, with Simmons, Dennis and Mumm as lineout locks). But I rate Jones as better than Dennis, despite my flower logo.

 

[Slim 293]

Mate, with all due respect, that's complete horseydoos. Pocock's a popular player who is well-liked and respected by almost everyone except Miranda Devine and her Twitter followers. Are you substituting your own political opinion for the players' personal ones?

I seem to recall scrubber trying to peddle the same rubbish last year re: Moore............

 

[Hawko]

Who are people picking at 12? Does anyone fancy Kerevi, or is it between Giteau and To'omua (and possibly Beale). I like the Kerevi styled inside centre, similar to Nonu, but unlike the AB's, we don't have a ballplayer at fullback (Smith or Dagg) to share the playmaking duties.

Giteau and To'omua I think, with Gits in my mind favourite for starting 12. Kerevi's defence needs some long term remedial coaching to remove the RG influence. This squad will be a start. Beale is there to back up 15 if Folau needs a rest or (heaven forbid) gets injured, and perhaps for versatility on the bench if we go 6:2.

 

[Slim 293]

I'd definitely have To'omua over Giteau.............

Better defender and has the ability to straighten the attack and break the line.

 

[Hawko]

Cheika is a coach who likes to select a team and then trial things from the bench. Who am I to disagree, but I will. The RC should not be competed for as first priority this year, it should be used to select our RWC final squad:

1. A number of players need a rest to freshen them up. Hooper, Foley, Folau and others have played too many minutes in Super Rugby compared to the NZ and SA players.
2. We should start our "first" 15 against SA and then start a "back-up" 15 against the Pumas. With astute selection of bench players we should be able to do a first cull of who will be going to RWC.
3. Then we select our "new" first 15 against NZ, based on those two games, and see how they go against the benchmark. Then we rest a few certainties against NZ in the return to allow final choices to be made.
4. We select the RWC squad, but like NZ we play a second 15 against the USA with some first team members and some fringe players. Here's where Naiyaravoro, Arnold and some others can get a cap where they haven't got one before to lock them away from the deprevations of Fiji, Scotland, etc.

Rest and experimentation should be the byword to our RC campaign, with a full-on tilt at the RWC to follow. I expect the top team to be selected for games 1, 3 & 4 and for the subsequent games.

 

[Gnostic]

I think that its very simple as to why Mumm is in the squad. As one of the best locks in the UK competition, he clearly has impeccable credentials. People think he is the same player who left Oz two years ago and that he has learnt nothing subsequently. The reports from the UK indicate that is not the case. He is a genuine NH-style lock, something his detractors over the years could never accept. He also has a huge engine, always has had.

Cheika, with his northern hemisphere experience, would be cognisant of this.

He played off the bench at the Tahs because he couldn't be selected for the finals and because he had not played in the team system all year. In the Wallaby squad I think he will shine.

On form, its hard to understand why Jones wasn't in front of Dennis and Horwill (though Horwill is primarily a bruiser lock as Skelton and Arnold are, with Simmons, Dennis and Mumm as lineout locks). But I rate Jones as better than Dennis, despite my flower logo.

I can agree with Mumm and thought his last year in the Tahs was his best by far. In fact IIRC he was instrumental in the Tahs being solid in maul defence that year along with Mowen??

The only part of your post I seriously contest is the Horwill statement of him still being a bruiser lock. Withe ball in hand he made less than a metre per carry and in defence he was less than 83% accurate. Add to that 2 Red cards and a yellow and the only thing he can be selected for is lineout and the spurious factor of experience. I would argue strongly that Jones offers everything that Horwill does and more, far more, and that in this case experience is spurious as the form factor outweighs it by so much along with the shocking disciplinary record of the last couple of years.

 

[Hawko]

I can agree with Mumm and thought his last year in the Tahs was his best by far. In fact IIRC he was instrumental in the Tahs being solid in maul defence that year along with Mowen??

The only part of your post I seriously contest is the Horwill statement of him still being a bruiser lock. Withe ball in hand he made less than a metre per carry and in defence he was less than 83% accurate. Add to that 2 Red cards and a yellow and the only thing he can be selected for is lineout and the spurious factor of experience. I would argue strongly that Jones offers everything that Horwill does and more, far more, and that in this case experience is spurious as the form factor outweighs it by so much along with the shocking disciplinary record of the last couple of years.

If I was to be honest I would have categorised Horwill as "supposed to be the bruiser lock". He and Faulkner are, to my mind, the most undeserving selections in the squad.

 

[Gnostic]

If I was to be honest I would have categorised Horwill as "supposed to be the bruiser lock". He and Faulkner are, to my mind, the most undeserving selections in the squad.

I would think that Faulkner is there because of PAE's injury. If Longbum hadn't left last year he would have made it I think, and if Ryan had managed to continue his development he would have been in the frame. Given the penalty count against Ben A I just don't think anybody sees him as a viable option as a Test THP anymore.

I think Faulkner is there on that basis.

 

[qwerty51]

I'd still take Alexander over Faulkner, he doesn't have to make the 23 against England or Wales but he'd be pretty valuable against Fiji and Uruguay to rack up points - he's good around the park.

 

[Mr Doug]

In an era when accurate/reliable kickers in Rugby are considered essential by other countries, Australia must consider itself extremely fortunate that it has the depth of talent to allow it to exclude a kicker the calibre of Mike Harris!
This comment will be no surprise to GAGR members who know that I have long-campaigned for Mike Harris over Kurtley Beale, and I will continue to do so.

 

[qwerty51]

Mike Harris is not the Mike Harris of 2012. He missed quite a few for the Rebels this year. I strongly wanted Harris on the wing when he couldn't miss too because he was that valuable.

 

[liquor box]

Giteau and To'omua I think, with Gits in my mind favourite for starting 12. Kerevi's defence needs some long term remedial coaching to remove the RG influence. This squad will be a start. Beale is there to back up 15 if Folau needs a rest or (heaven forbid) gets injured, and perhaps for versatility on the bench if we go 6:2.

Given the RG influence if he manages to get selected then he will never get dropped no matter how poor he is so it is vital to solve any problems before selection

 

[Joe Blow]

Playing devils advocate, couldn't the same argument be made against Gits & Mitchell?

Who have they kept out of the squad?

 

[qwerty51]

Who have they kept out of the squad?

Are you insinuating Mumm is keeping Jones out of the squad? I reckon Mumm has been picked as the 3rd lock. Dennis, Horwill and Arnold should all go for Jones before Mumm.

 

[Joe Blow]

Are you insinuating Mumm is keeping Jones out of the squad? I reckon Mumm has been picked as the 3rd lock. Dennis, Horwill and Arnold should all go for Jones before Mumm.

I don't know.
But assuming 2 of the lock/6s don't make the final squad then it would have been beneficial to have Jones, and say Coleman, around the extended squad with an eye on the future.
But my point really was who would be in the squad in place of Gits and Mitchell? Cummins and Debracini(sp)?

 

[qwerty51]

O'Connor and Inman

 

[fatprop]

I would argue strongly that Jones offers everything that Horwill does and more, far more, and that in this case experience is spurious as the form factor outweighs it by so much along with the shocking disciplinary record of the last couple of years.

I have no doubt that Jones will get his chance, but I think Horwill is worth an early punt that a different atmosphere may get him to where he needs to be.

"If" that happens Cheika will deemed a genius and the Wobs will be a far better team for having another experienced quality player putting in a shift.

But as I have said before we need that balance of youth and experience/leadership in the squad, I don't see them as direct replacements for each other. I see Horwill competing with Mumm and Dennis for that spot. A spot that if Horwill was in form would not as heavily covered in the squad, because an in form Horwill is a great player.

 

[fatprop]

Who have they kept out of the squad?

I would have thought Haylett-Petty (our only decent young 15 cover) and Inman

 

[Strewthcobber]

If I was to be honest I would have categorised Horwill as "supposed to be the bruiser lock". He and Faulkner are, to my mind, the most undeserving selections in the squad.

I would have thought that Horwill is there as a "set piece" lock.

The super rugby stats show he stole more lineouts than any other lock in the country and was part of probably the best scrum.

There are obviously drawbacks to how he can play these days but he needs to be part of the reserve pack for training purposes if nothing else.

 

[KOB1987]

Just to generate some discussion, here's mark Ella's starting xv in the Aus this morning:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Dennis - c
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Beale (blind side)
12. Too mua
13. Kuridrani
14. Ashley-cooper (open)
15. Folau


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