Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Groucho]

Yes he does, but one thing Ive seen him do better then all of them is control the ball at the back of the scrum.. it's a thing of beauty

Picking up the ball while retreating at high speed is a very important skill in Wallaby rugby.

 

[fatprop]

FP how do you define the blind side and open side wingers' roles?

Very broadly, I see one winger (the blindside - for want of a better term) as a bigger, explosive unit who is used as a threat in close through traffic. (the Digby, Wendall, Lote etc (in the ABs Savea) solid and strong in traffic, able to punch over the advantage line.

The other winger as that "second fullback", solid under the high ball, working in the back three defensive pendulum for kick return (the JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) etc (in the ABs Cory Jane & Ben Smith role).

Now this is very general because for the Tahs Beale play this role and Horne defends in closer. But generally it gives the back three some balance

 

[fatprop]

England do well with Vunipola as a non jumping 8 in their pack I don't see why Vaea wouldn't do so in ours

It is about balance, they have two great jumping locks and a 6 just as effective.

We can't have ineffective jumping lock = Skelton and Vaea starting in test rugby. The Tahs lineout weaknesses stem from being a jumper down - having Dennis & Pots with Palu & Skelton trying to be the third.





In a test match, a decent lineout will just cover your two jumpers and make you throw to hopefuls or throw to competion

 

[Train Without a Station]

Could it be that we have Butler on the bench who was the Brumbies Forward of the Year last year and an outstanding player..

No, what's impacted Butler's minutes the most is that for a few games it's been him on the bench.

Understandably he started on the bench, his minutes started to climb but he had a mid season bench stint which is the reason he averages the lowest minutes (below Palu).

 

[Wilson]

It doesn't really matter if Vaea's minutes are low because of fitness or because it's the way the brumbies want to use their back row, he's come off a major layoff and hasn't proven he can play anything near 80 at super level. Playing him at test level will be a huge punt at this point. May still happen pre world cup, but it looks like it's going to be a year to early for him. His best chance might be getting a couple of 80 minute games in the NRC to prove he can do something like it, but I think he's still directly competing with Palu for a spot at that point so it may not be enough.

 

[Train Without a Station]

He has played 80, but not many times

 

[Brendan Hume]

The last half a dozen pages have been great reading. Seems to be little debate around the bulk of the squad which must be a good thing for the Wallabies - that form seems to have produced a viable 23 man team with some good competition for the remaining RWC squad.

I like the idea of Vaea in the team for some of the reasons mentioned earlier - perhaps from the bench, if Skelton is off, or starting with Skelton coming off the bench. For mine, he's the most physical of our 8's and plays the role that Kefu was so effective at for the Wallabies in the late 90's early 00's. Palu is an outstanding 8 and should also be in that mix - starting or from the bench. McCalman and Higgers are both excellent footy players, but McCalman seems to lack some of the penetration required, and Higgers may play too wide for a Wallaby 8 - works for the ABs, but the Wallabies are not the ABs. Realistically though, if the 8 is Palu with Higgers on the bench, I think they're both good selections and I'll be cheering myself hoarse for them.

Skelton seems to be a unanimous pick among the posts - while I thought he was a bit lazy and underdone last season, he's certainly improved this year. I think he, Simmons and Horwill would make a fine locking group for the Wallabies, but if someone else is picked for Horwill (probably Jones or Dennis), I reckon they'll give their best, albeit without the same impact at the set piece.

We do have some inconsistency in form among the scrum halves, but I reckon Phipps will be picked and he'll do his best. It's a shame that Genia hasn't been able to capture his 2011 form because Aaron Smith is clearly the best 9 in the world and imho Genia is probably the only other Aussie 9 that has the class to match him.

10 is going to be interesting - will a fit To'omua/Kurindrani midfield have the same dynamism with Foley, or is Cooper really the key here?

My biggest problem with the squad is our kicking options in the back three. It was mentioned in an earlier post that the keys to a RWC are a quality set piece, a good goal kicker and fantastic defence. The other pillar to success for mine is excellent kicking out of hand. For this reason alone I'd like to see Mitchell in the team for the RWC. A lot of our wingers are good, but none have the skill set that Mitchell has.

The RWC 23 (major games) and 31 that I would like to see picked
1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. To'omua
13. Kurindrani
14. Tomane
15. Folau

16. Hanson
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Jones
20. Hooper
21. Vaea
22. Genia
23. Foley

24. Polota-Nau
25. Toby Smith
26. Horwill
27. Higginbotham
28. Stirzacker (this will be White based on the squad already named)
29. Leiliifaano
30. Ashley-Cooper
31. O'Connor

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think it speaks volumes for the man that we are even talking about Ita Vaea for the Wallabies atm. Earlier in the season, he wasn't even on anybody's long list. I tend to agree that he is directly competing with Cliff Palu for a spot, and you'd have to say he is at long odds to make the RWC despite his fairly impressive form later this season. I believe the two front runners for the No 8 spot are Palu and Higgers and each will get a go depending on the game plan for particular matches. But then I'd have Vaea in preference to Ben McCalman because he has greater impact on a game - don't believe me, go back and watch the Brumbies/Force game from a couple of weeks ago. In any case, I think that Vaea will be first cab off the rank to replace Palu next year, his sternest competition being Lopeti Timani.

 

[Floggn']

A name that seems to be forgotten is Giteau. He will be there make no mistake of it. The ARU wouldn't have changed their rules if Cheika didn't want him.

 

[Viking]

I think it speaks volumes for the man that we are even talking about Ita Vaea for the Wallabies atm. Earlier in the season, he wasn't even on anybody's long list. I tend to agree that he is directly competing with Cliff Palu for a spot, and you'd have to say he is at long odds to make the RWC despite his fairly impressive form later this season. I believe the two front runners for the No 8 spot are Palu and Higgers and each will get a go depending on the game plan for particular matches. But then I'd have Vaea in preference to Ben McCalman because he has greater impact on a game - don't believe me, go back and watch the Brumbies/Force game from a couple of weeks ago. In any case, I think that Vaea will be first cab off the rank to replace Palu next year, his sternest competition being Lopeti Timani.

I actually think Vaea is competing with Will SKelton for the basher role, because as long as Skelton is preferred at lock the Test number 8 will be required to be a jumping option. Palu can be an option, Vaea hasn't taken 1 line-out this year.

I think it will also take a few solid Tests from Jones or another lock to move Skelton to the bench and have Vaea at 8, or Vaea will need to take some line-outs. So a few variables will need to happen before he is starter.

Likely Post RWC squad:
4. Jones
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Vaea

Bench:
Skelton

I don't think Jones is a Test lock yet, but he's developing nicely, his topping the stats etc. He just needs to transfer his impact to Test level and he's there.

 

[fatprop]

For the RWC Vaea has Palu, Higgers & McCalman in front of him. So about 10% chance at best, as he can't really be used as a utility back rower either (like Higgers & McCalman)

 

[TOCC]

I think it speaks volumes for the man that we are even talking about Ita Vaea for the Wallabies atm. Earlier in the season, he wasn't even on anybody's long list. I tend to agree that he is directly competing with Cliff Palu for a spot, and you'd have to say he is at long odds to make the RWC despite his fairly impressive form later this season. I believe the two front runners for the No 8 spot are Palu and Higgers and each will get a go depending on the game plan for particular matches. But then I'd have Vaea in preference to Ben McCalman because he has greater impact on a game - don't believe me, go back and watch the Brumbies/Force game from a couple of weeks ago. In any case, I think that Vaea will be first cab off the rank to replace Palu next year, his sternest competition being Lopeti Timani.

I agree with almost everything, what I will say is that versatility in a RWC squad speaks volumes and for that reason I still think McCalman is ahead of Vaea.

If Palu is heathy then Vaea won't make the squad, teams can't afford to carry 2 specialist number 8s in the RWC squad, however if Palu were ruled out then the door would be wide open for a specialist number 8 to take the spot which could fall to Vaea.


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[Train Without a Station]

The issue is they cannot play together at 6 and 8 if necessary.

The team can absolutely only afford 1 6 or 8 who is not a strong jumper and averages less than 60 minutes a week.

If any injuries occur, Higginbotham or McCalman can play 6 without impacting the line out and play for 80 no problems.

If injuries occurred and you had to shift Vaea or Palu to 6, your line out is fucked, and you've got 2 players who haven't put many 80 minute efforts together, meaning you probably need 2 loosies on the bench to replace them.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Maybe Gill comes in over Hooper? Gill's line out stats are unimpressive this year but he is a genuine option in a very good Reds lineout. Gill can cover 7, 6 at a pinch, and allow Vaea to make his impact. Just watching the Reds Tahs first half - the set piece work of the Reds and Gill's impact at the breakdown is pretty impressive - they simply lack impact at the gain line except for Kerevi. Throw in Vaea over Schatz in that group and I think you have a very different dynamic for the Reds.

 

[Viking]

Maybe Gill comes in over Hooper? Gill's line out stats are unimpressive this year but he is a genuine option in a very good Reds lineout. Gill can cover 7, 6 at a pinch, and allow Vaea to make his impact. Just watching the Reds Tahs first half - the set piece work of the Reds and Gill's impact at the breakdown is pretty impressive - they simply lack impact at the gain line except for Kerevi. Throw in Vaea over Schatz in that group and I think you have a very different dynamic for the Reds.

Tough call. Hooper and Pocock are the best 2 players we have, the one who isn't starting will surely be on the bench. Nor Vaea or Gill will shift them out of the 23.

I think the impact Pocock and Hooper is more valuable then their utility value. The rest of bench can be decided on utility value but those 2 players should be first picked.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Maybe Gill comes in over Hooper? Gill's line out stats are unimpressive this year but he is a genuine option in a very good Reds lineout. Gill can cover 7, 6 at a pinch, and allow Vaea to make his impact. Just watching the Reds Tahs first half - the set piece work of the Reds and Gill's impact at the breakdown is pretty impressive - they simply lack impact at the gain line except for Kerevi. Throw in Vaea over Schatz in that group and I think you have a very different dynamic for the Reds.

I take your point, but Gill has never been a strong enough jumper to be very competitive in the air. He's taken line outs, but he's used at the back in an uncontested role. To work with Vaea he'd have to be jumping against the oppositions top jumpers. Instead of marking up on 3 or 4 other players first, they'd be putting their defensive jumpers against him.

 

[MarkJ]

For the RWC Vaea has Palu, Higgers & McCalman in front of him. So about 10% chance at best, as he can't really be used as a utility back rower either (like Higgers & McCalman)

Unless you're Jake White, who played Vaea as a 7 (not particularly successfully though)

 

[Scrubber2050]

Gill has 2 blokes in front of him,,,,,,

I reckon Chek will only play one of them on match day. Otherwise we beco,e quite limited at setpiece time. Which one ?????? The choice will be opposition specific

 

[Groucho]

A name that seems to be forgotten is Giteau. He will be there make no mistake of it. The ARU wouldn't have changed their rules if Cheika didn't want him.

I think that's a bit of a hairy chestnut. The ARU changed their eligibility rules to increase the availability of overseas players in the face of a long-term, almost-existential threat to Australian rugby, which is the financial advantage that Northern Hemisphere clubs have in the open market for professional players.

The new rules provide an opportunity to continue to select outstanding Wallabies without providing an incentive for younger players to leave. They weren't designed to make Mat Giteau personally available, although he's an ideal example of the long-term strategic purpose of the change.

You'd have to be Mrs Giteau to believe otherwise.

 

[Groucho]

Unless you're Jake White, who played Vaea as a 7 (not particularly successfully though)

Jake White never played anyone as a 7. As the man himself once said, "the only fetcher I need is my son when I ask him to fetch me a beer from the fridge".