Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC
- Thread starter emuarse
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T
Train Without a Station
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If nobody is looking at it I've started preparing an number 8 by the numbers article.
I'll have something out together by the weekend.
I've got Ben Mc, Higgers, Vaea, Palu and Schatz (haha not likely) and also used data from Read and Vermeulan for comparison.
Spoiler alert. Vaea averages the lowest minutes of all Aus 8s.
Forcefan do you have ruck stats for number 8s?
I'll have something out together by the weekend.
I've got Ben Mc, Higgers, Vaea, Palu and Schatz (haha not likely) and also used data from Read and Vermeulan for comparison.
Spoiler alert. Vaea averages the lowest minutes of all Aus 8s.
Forcefan do you have ruck stats for number 8s?
Beefcake
Bill Watson (15)
Nice post
Is there an equivalent for the RC?But numbers do little to fill in the gap between the lineout and tries scored as much as score margins indicate the contest or how the game was won.
This dataset does not support any claims that more than two jumpers are necessary to secure lineout ball nor that tries scored from lineout equate to winning games.
There are too many nuances in the game to rely on statistics (and I know ur not making that claim) but there is the temptation of course to manipulate how statistics are read particularly in the face of pressure -
The wobs need a dominant 8 that runs like a horse and tackles like a tractor more than they need an extra option at the lineout. The well-rounded game, has also earned the wobs 12 years of Bledisloe misery. Time for a change. #cheikaball
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Vaea will be one for the future. No doubt about it. It is pretty amazing to think about what he accomplished this year after his return from injury. He certainly gets better with every game but there is too many experienced options ahead of him Palu, Higgers, McCalman - 2 of those will be gone next year. His time will come.
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Agree. I think Skelton's inclusion in the pack makes a big difference for the Wallabies. One of the big reasons Palu has for a long time been the obvious first choice when fit is because the wallabies pack otherwise generally lacks any big physical ball runners. He's rarely been everything we wanted him to be at test level, but i recall just as many games without him where we lacked any genuine punch in the forwards. Skelton gives us the physical line-bending giant we're been looking. With him in the team, I'd feel more comfortable starting a guy like McCalman, who is more of a workhorse than a genuine powerhouse.
If Skelton became unavailable for some reason then Vaea might be a more intriguing options. Whilst he's limited, he does give you a genuine line-bender. In any event, I think all of Higgers, Palu and McCalman are ahead of him.
The argument I really dislike on here is 'Well the Wallabies did shit last year with Player X, therefore we must pick Player Y'. Or 'Well with Player X we've had nothing but pain in the Bledisloe Cup, so it's time to give Player Y a go'.
It's just bullshit. There are plenty of reasons why Ita Vaea deserves a shot at the Wallabies. Or Lopeti Timani, or Adam Coleman, or anyone really. But 'well the Wallabies lost last year so it's time for something new' just isn't one of them.
The only reason you should ever be picked for the Wallabies is because you are the best player in your position, end of story. Not just because we got bored of Cliff Palu all of a sudden and wanted to 'give someone else a go'.
OK well maybe in minnow games, or off the bench, that last statement may apply. But for 90% of games the above holds true.
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It's just bullshit. There are plenty of reasons why Ita Vaea deserves a shot at the Wallabies. Or Lopeti Timani, or Adam Coleman, or anyone really. But 'well the Wallabies lost last year so it's time for something new' just isn't one of them.
The only reason you should ever be picked for the Wallabies is because you are the best player in your position, end of story. Not just because we got bored of Cliff Palu all of a sudden and wanted to 'give someone else a go'.
OK well maybe in minnow games, or off the bench, that last statement may apply. But for 90% of games the above holds true.
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T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Yep. In the court of public opinion, players benefit from not being there to fail.
T
TOCC
Guest
Fijian Wallabies backline
9.
10. Ben Volavola
11. Taqele Naiyaravoro
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Henry Speight
15. Sefanaia Naivalu
22. Solo Rasolea
23. Chris Kuridrani
9.
10. Ben Volavola
11. Taqele Naiyaravoro
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Henry Speight
15. Sefanaia Naivalu
22. Solo Rasolea
23. Chris Kuridrani
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Yes he does, but one thing Ive seen him do better then all of them is control the ball at the back of the scrum.. it's a thing of beauty
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I would add to that it depends on the game plan too. If your plan is to have big blokes smashing into the gain line at pace, to get the defence backpedaling and thus creating space for your outside runners (like, let's say the Tahs over the last couple of years), then you select that kind of player and provide a frame work for them to achieve that result. That's where a guy like Skelton comes into their own. The plan calls for a big guy to get over the advantage line and take defenders with him. It also works to have a high work rate back row to support the ball carrier and keep the forward momentum (hence the role that Hooper plays), as well as some outright mongrel in the form of a guy like JacPot.
So the point I'm making, in a round about way, is that yep you want the best player in a given position, but you also want the guy who is most suitable for the positional requirements of the coaches game plan. This will often come down to some 50/50 calls in some spots (like Ciffy v McCalman or Pocock v Hooper).
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Could it be that we have Butler on the bench who was the Brumbies Forward of the Year last year and an outstanding player..
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I'll also add that Vaea looks promising, now that his body appears to be right. I do wonder, a lot like Big Will last year, whether he has the fitness at this stage of his career to play test footy. Hopefully like Will he keeps developing his game and we see him in gold, because I reckon he's good enough.
Beefcake
Bill Watson (15)
Undoubtedly, just the leadership and experience of Fardy & Pocock round the park, would improve the shape and focus of his game. Watching the game vs stormers, u can see the enthusiasm and encouragement from those same players in Vaea runs and off the ball work, particularly his D. Those same players already in the wobs setup.
As a selector, surely that must pique some interest. Especially if it is indeed an abrasive brand of footy that you want to play. Will he be picked? Who knows.
He's not the finished article like Skelton, and every other wob before him when he first was first capped, but then again, you make the wobs because of your potential, ur the best, coaches favourite, twinkle in ur eye, a million reasons that coaches dont articulate honestly enough. Then so too, if current performances are respectable enough to justify a closer look at the next level and specifically if when offering a skillset that has been unfulfilled in that position.
Does it call into question those who are already there? This wouldnt be a forum nor would there be the need for selectors if that very question was not asked.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
FP how do you define the blind side and open side wingers' roles? Most seem to think that the open side is the No 14 and the blind side is the No 11, but in reality don't they both play open side and blind side depending on which side of the ground the set piece takes place?
However, you may have been observant enough to see that Speight and Tomane change sides many times during a game. Much more so than any pair of wingers I've seen. Not sure if they do it to essentially play one role or the other, but it is not uncommon to see Joe on the right hand side and Henry on the left, but that's not how they start the game.
My own observation is that Henry makes most of his breaks down the right hand side usually on the end of a backline move, but it's true that he also shows up in the 10/12 channel running an inside line off To'omua or Lealiifano.
Both of them prosper by the uncanny ability of Nic White to pick out the best placed runner when there are multiple choices. This is especially true when he sets up the attack on the blind side. I don't think they, or any other wingers, would have it quite so good with any of our other half backs who play a much more structured game which more often than not is predominantly pass to the Number 10 and let him do the creative stuff. This is one area where White has it in spades over all the other Aus No 9s.
They have two jumping locks, and both their 6 and 7 are 190cm+
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