Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Beefcake]

Beefcake, my point was that if you want a strong line out, you need a number of options.

If you go another way, you have you accept the line out will be weakened.

You may be able to overcome it in super rugby but on test rugby defenses tighter. Can you afford to give up 1 or 2 times a game where you have backline on backline over 3/4 of the width of the field?

I do acknowledge your point, but the contenders for selection are either attacking or defensive. And unfortunately the current crop of cattle do not possess both or are still developing them.

Perhaps it may be a horses for course type of set up. This allows the development of an adaptive style of rugby that could cater for Cheikaball, yet have room to develop other styles with various combination of players. Consistency may suffer in the pack, but the focus will shift on cementing hb-fly axis in the backs. Which is prolly the only real strength the wobs possess. #giveit2thebacks

 

[Train Without a Station]

I certainly don't advocate picking shrinking violets.

But how many teams have succeeded with a weak set piece?

I see the merit in a player like Skelton. But we have to consider that player then dictates the options you can use at 5, 6 and 8.

 

[TOCC]

Already the Wallaby scrum is the Achilles heel, but at least on been awarded a penalty the Wallabies can kick to touch and use the line out to launch attack... It would be a massive mistake to dismiss the importance of having 3 quality lineout jumpers in the RWC.

At test level you need quality across all facets, you can't sacrifice the set piece to chase the fabled 'across the park' quality, at test level the opposition are of the quality they can exploit a chink in the armour like that...

If the Wallabies went into a game with only 2 jumpers, then the opposition would use a game plan to peg the Wallabies in their own half, given we have poor kickers across the backline and are up against teams who have excellent kickers this would remove Vaea from the game, we aren't going to run it from our own 22. Wallabies would struggle to get out of their own half due to a combination of poor kicking and poor lineouts.


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[Beefcake]

All contenders for wobs are justified - according to selectors

Maybe there should be more faith in the forwards and lineout coaches, to accommodate such selection dilemmas. The Smith-Waugh combo was a formidable force that persisted with (some) success. But the lineout still functioned well enough.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes. But that line out didn't have Will Skelton.

 

[Beefcake]

Already the Wallaby scrum is the Achilles heel, but at least on been awarded a penalty the Wallabies can kick to touch and use the line out to launch attack. It would be a massive mistake to dismiss the importance of having 3 quality lineout jumpers in the RWC.

At test level you need quality across all facets, you can't sacrifice the set piece to chase the fabled 'across the park' quality, at test level the opposition are of the quality they can exploit a chink in the armour like that.

If the Wallabies went into a game with only 2 jumpers, then the opposition would use a game plan to peg the Wallabies in their own half, given we have poor kickers across the backline and are up against teams who have excellent kickers this would remove Vaea from the game, we aren't going to run it from our own 22. Wallabies would struggle to get out of their own half due to a combination of poor kicking and poor lineouts.


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This style typifies the mindset of wobs rugby that is convenient, safe and predictable.

Wobs are struggling now. They have been struggling for the last decade. Their game needs to change, bona fide simple truth.

I'd say this is what Cheika seeks to change. That safe mentality.

 

[Gnostic]

I think Latu has been good, but I'd say your probably unconsciously favouring your Tah player a bit. No doubt he's had a good season and looks like a potential future wallaby. However he's been playing in a fairly dominant pack and has been reaping the benefits without completely standing out. The big thing working against him is lack of experience. Fainga'a is a seasoned test player and is coming off some pretty impressive test performances in 2015. If anything i think Latu have to display Hanson. Again Hanson has more experience and his form has been as good, if not better than Latu.

Tough on Latu to miss out, but it's not ideal to be blooding tight 5 players at a world cup, particularly hookers, who are crucial to a team's performance. History would rule against it. Then again there is one exception. BDP had only played 2 tests when he was picked in the 2007 world cup squad, and ended up playing off the bench in the final. However, even he was originally left out of the squad and only came in due to a late injury. Plus he's a freak.

No bias unconscious or otherwise. Latu has been a key part of the dominance of the Tahs pack. Fainga'a hasn't been starting because Hanson has been so good in an otherwise poor Reds pack. Last years form doesn't sway me so much as recent form that has been outstanding. There is another exception in Kearns picked from reserve grade at Hooker and Eales at 5 in the tight 5.

 

[TOCC]

This style typifies the mindset of wobs rugby that is convenient, safe and predictable.

Wobs are struggling now. They have been struggling for the last decade. Their game needs to change, bona fide simple truth.

Show me a team who has won a RWC with anything less then quality across their set piece..

The simple truth is you need consistency across all areas of your game, you can't have glaring weaknesses at test level.


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[Gnostic]

Tomane has to be regarded as a certainty for a wing spot now. His performances have been the most consistent of any Australian winger apart from Horne. I'd be very reluctant though to carry two wingers who are non kickers into test matches.

Speight is also likely to miss at least the first test in Brisbane if he gets a 4 match ban.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Show me a team who has won a RWC with anything less then quality across their set piece..

The simple truth is you need consistency across all areas of your game, you can't have glaring weaknesses at test level.


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That's absolutely right. You don't consistently win knockout stages of the RWC without good goal kicking, robust defence and a solid set piece. I challenge anyone to find me a winner of the tournament that didn't have all three. As much as we might hate to admit it, the RWC rewards teams who execute the so-called boring aspects of rugby well. Even the two Wallaby teams that won the whole lot had a excellent set pieces. The 1999 team had an absolutely air tight defence (one try conceded for the tournament I think) and Matt Burke knocking them over from all over the place (including that famous semi final). There are absolutely no short cuts here. With that said, the Tahs had the best attack and defence in the comp last year, so there is some hope that Cheika can instil the same mindset in the Wallabies this year.

 

[wamberal]

Mindset is only part of the answer.


If we need good kickers, where will they come from? Not only for goal, incidentally, some of Foley's line kicking has been pathetic.


It seems pretty obvious that we cannot afford to give anything at all away in our games with the top sides, of which we used to be one.

 

[Beefcake]

Show me a team who has won a RWC with anything less then quality across their set piece..

The simple truth is you need consistency across all areas of your game, you can't have glaring weaknesses at test level.


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Thats redundant, like if dont score points you cant win a RWC

what I found interesting in ur blurb:

If the Wallabies went into a game with only 2 jumpers, then the opposition would use a game plan to peg the Wallabies in their own half, given we have poor kickers across the backline and are up against teams who have excellent kickers this would remove Vaea from the game, we aren't going to run it from our own 22. Wallabies would struggle to get out of their own half due to a combination of poor kicking and poor lineouts

Its really a noughts and crosses type strategy, very passive selecting a team based on cancelling out threats rather than asserting a type of dictatorship type strategy... ala Gregan Larkham - GSmith, Kefu, Finegan

Mindset is only part of the answer

With all things being equal, its also the key difference between winning and losing

 

[Highlander35]

It's not really a negative strategy, it's just firmly on the side of common sense.

Against England for example, Parling will just go head to head with Simmons, and Lawes will plonk himself at 2 to disrupt the short option.

With Vaea, this would only leave 1 option "free", either Skelton or Fardy. If Skelton were a significantly better lineout option, you'd get away with that, because Fardy is a very competent operator. But since he's not, you need to have another option to have a strong lineout.

That's even ignoring the issue that Vaea is not a better option than any of Palu, McCalman or Higginbotham.

 

[Gnostic]

I think Chieka will be looking to play the Wallabies game first and then worry about the opposition second. That is certainly what I would like to see. To do that he will have definite ideas with regard to selections and fitness for purpose. That isn't to say he will sacrifice the set peices, I think he learnt a lesson last year with the Tahs and the Wallabies in that regard, but neither will he concede his gameplan to strengthen the set piece. I think you will find those selected will have to aim up and achieve more than they have traditionally offered in their areas of weakness to achieve selection. So in Skelton's case he will have to show the same lineout and scrum improvement in tests that he showed in the Tahs this year. Simmons will have to show the discipline he has displayed in this years Reds, and actually do something away from the set piece which he hasn't done consistently at any level.

That sort of comparison can be made for most positions and functions.

 

[Lorenzo]

Breaking News!

My new Wallabies starting XV:

1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Skelton
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Higginbotham
9 Phipps
10 Cooper
11 Joe "David Campese" Tomane
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 Speight
15 Folau

How has Cooper's goalkicking been this year?

 

[Dctarget]

Breaking News!

My new Wallabies starting XV:

1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Skelton
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Higginbotham
9 Phipps
10 Cooper
11 Joe "David Campese" Tomane
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 Speight
15 Folau

Swap out Foley for Cooper and Speight for Horne and I think you have pretty much nailed Cheika's team that he'll name first (barring resting players).

 

[qwerty51]

Speight won't be available.

 

[Slim 293]

Maybe we need to start a RC squad prediction thread, as I assume Speight will definitely be available for the World Cup (and for most of the RC for that matter)................

 

[Brumby Runner]

Assuming Henry gets up to 4 or 5 weeks, can any JID or NRC games count towards that suspension, or would it all be counted against Super XV or Test matches?

 

[kiap]

Assuming Henry gets up to 4 or 5 weeks, can any JID or NRC games count towards that suspension, or would it all be counted against Super XV or Test matches?

They could count towards it AFAIK.