T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Such a fallacy that nobody in Australian rugby cares about scrummaging. It's actually one of the most talked about topics in fact.
Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC
- Thread starter emuarse
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BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Not sure how bad Slipper's injury is, but it doesn't appear to have been effecting his scrummaging. The Reds front row has been staunch.
Also I'm not sure that Slipper's short minutes-per-game stats is a sign that he's been struggling, or more just player management. I accept that he's putting off surgery (and i know he's been off injured a few times this season) but he's still pretty much the only Reds player that started in every single game this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Cheika asked them to manage his game time, and rather than resting him they just had him play reduced minutes. i have no idea to be honest, but any player that doesn't miss one game all season isn't exactly falling apart.
The ironic thing about Robinson is that he appears to have got better around the field but worse in the scrum in recent times. Still he's not a bad back up option, in the event of injuries. I'd feel more confident seeing him in the 23 than I would Alexander. If I had to guess I'd say he's still just barely ahead of Smith, due to his experience.
Also I'm not sure that Slipper's short minutes-per-game stats is a sign that he's been struggling, or more just player management. I accept that he's putting off surgery (and i know he's been off injured a few times this season) but he's still pretty much the only Reds player that started in every single game this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Cheika asked them to manage his game time, and rather than resting him they just had him play reduced minutes. i have no idea to be honest, but any player that doesn't miss one game all season isn't exactly falling apart.
The ironic thing about Robinson is that he appears to have got better around the field but worse in the scrum in recent times. Still he's not a bad back up option, in the event of injuries. I'd feel more confident seeing him in the 23 than I would Alexander. If I had to guess I'd say he's still just barely ahead of Smith, due to his experience.
Floggn'
Jimmy Flynn (14)
It must be the camera that shows fat rolls hanging from under his jersey. Cmon Hugh. Google any image of Benn playing in the last 2 years and tell me that he is as fit as he can be with a straight face.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Unlike in civilians, for whom fatness is a proxy for lack of exercise, in athletes fitness and fatness are largely (sic) unrelated quantities. Fat may affect mobility, but it says nothing at all about either aerobic capacity or strength. Plenty of extremely fit-looking people wouldn't survive a single session of pro rugby training, let alone a provincial or test level game each week. I think you'll find that Robinson is an extremely fit man. How he looks is a matter for the discotheque, not the rugby field.
emuarse
Chilla Wilson (44)
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Fatcat may not make the Manpower Calender but that doesnt preclude him from being a top LHP for many years. His performance in the last 12 months has definitely improved.
S;ipper appears to being managed reasonably well. The game seems to change for the worse when he leaves the foeld. Whether that is because of his personal performance or his ability to influence others around him . Now he gets a rest which is so very important for our RWC prospects.
I think Australia's scrum darkest daysare over. With Slipper, Sio, Robbo and Keps, Holmes together with Moore and TPN we will use the scrum as a weapon come RWC time
S;ipper appears to being managed reasonably well. The game seems to change for the worse when he leaves the foeld. Whether that is because of his personal performance or his ability to influence others around him . Now he gets a rest which is so very important for our RWC prospects.
I think Australia's scrum darkest daysare over. With Slipper, Sio, Robbo and Keps, Holmes together with Moore and TPN we will use the scrum as a weapon come RWC time
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
The Scrubber Death Knell?
It seems like anytime we get confident enough to say our scrum is on the up, we get a reality check. If all of the above are healthy we should be ok, but 1 or two injuries could hurt us. The Loss of Moore, Slipper or Kepu would be bad. Sio, Smith, PAE are all largely unknown quantities at test level and are more suited to supporting roles.
I will say though that emergence of some actual quality THPs this season is reason for optimism (PAE and Holmes). And luckily for us one of them actually has test experience.
It seems like anytime we get confident enough to say our scrum is on the up, we get a reality check. If all of the above are healthy we should be ok, but 1 or two injuries could hurt us. The Loss of Moore, Slipper or Kepu would be bad. Sio, Smith, PAE are all largely unknown quantities at test level and are more suited to supporting roles.
I will say though that emergence of some actual quality THPs this season is reason for optimism (PAE and Holmes). And luckily for us one of them actually has test experience.
Brendan Hume
Charlie Fox (21)
It's a Wallabies issue too - his workload has been ridiculous for the past 18 months. The disappointing thing is even though the season was gone for the Reds and last year the Spring tour was a lost cause, the management of both groups haven't shown faith in other options to give the poor bastard a spell. Kepu, Simmons and Hooper are all in the same boat but at least Simmons had the sense to pick up an injury.
I think you also need to consider that he's a senior member of the team, was one of the vice captains and was probably doing everything he could to prove his fitness, start every test and stay on the field as long as he could.
No player wants to miss a game, particularly a test.
No player wants to miss a game, particularly a test.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I was actually going to comment it's human nature for the players to want to play every single game.
But that's why you hire S & C coaches to independently monitor and advise on this to the Head Coaches.
I think the Reds have taken a massive risk with Slipper this year. By all rights it should have blown up in their face and based on how poorly they chose to manage him, he should have gotten injured for a significant period at some point. By some fortune, he did not, but this will only affect his fitness for international duty. Now instead of hitting the ground running or having a short recovery, it wouldn't surprise me if his next 5 weeks are compromised in some way due to the condition he's finished the season in.
Once Holmes was back, the Reds should have looked to rest Slipper for a game or 2. Missing the Rebels win would have given him a 3 week window between games.
But that's why you hire S & C coaches to independently monitor and advise on this to the Head Coaches.
I think the Reds have taken a massive risk with Slipper this year. By all rights it should have blown up in their face and based on how poorly they chose to manage him, he should have gotten injured for a significant period at some point. By some fortune, he did not, but this will only affect his fitness for international duty. Now instead of hitting the ground running or having a short recovery, it wouldn't surprise me if his next 5 weeks are compromised in some way due to the condition he's finished the season in.
Once Holmes was back, the Reds should have looked to rest Slipper for a game or 2. Missing the Rebels win would have given him a 3 week window between games.
Joeleee
Ted Fahey (11)
Not just for pride's sake. That's also ~$10,000 he would be missing out on in match appearance fees. (I think that's the rough number though happy to be corrected).
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Train, very valid point about the S & C's independance.
Trouble with all of these blokes (as all players, senior or junior) is they just wanna play rugby. However, that may not been in the best interests of the team. James Horwill springs to mind last year I think
Trouble with all of these blokes (as all players, senior or junior) is they just wanna play rugby. However, that may not been in the best interests of the team. James Horwill springs to mind last year I think
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
More like since about mid-2013 Scrubber.
S&C / Medical could also be saying that the damage is done and the only way to properly fix it is through surgery and a long break. Playing on it might not be likely to make it any worse nor will it make him more likely to last 80 minutes if he has a couple of weeks off.
So many unknowns here except that Slipper isn't 100%.
So many unknowns here except that Slipper isn't 100%.
Brendan Hume
Charlie Fox (21)
Injury is a slightly different issue though imo. I'm more concerned about players being asked to perform week in/week out for the entire Super Rugby season, RC, and EOYT. The daily grind of training wears both mentally and physically and dealing with that fatigue means a poor performance or an injury is more likely.
I can accept that for the good of the team, the best players need to be playing footy - but for the good of the player, and the long term interests of the team (with the potential bonus of blooding talent), sometimes a break would be advisable.
I've got no doubt there are smarter people than me looking after these blokes as individuals, and I'm sure coaches are capable of understanding the needs of the players with regards to variety and rest at training, but I really thought in the 2014 EOYT some of the players looked a bit jaded at the back end and some of that has continued into this season. Mostly Hooper, Foley, Kepu, Slipper, Folau and Simmons were my major worries - and I think each of these (with the exception of Simmons who had an injury induced rest) have had a few lulls in their Super Rugby season where they looked like they might benefit from a weeks rest. To me that benefits the squad depth as well as the player rested. For certain it doesn't seemed to have hurt the NZ teams who have rested their All Blacks.
I can accept that for the good of the team, the best players need to be playing footy - but for the good of the player, and the long term interests of the team (with the potential bonus of blooding talent), sometimes a break would be advisable.
I've got no doubt there are smarter people than me looking after these blokes as individuals, and I'm sure coaches are capable of understanding the needs of the players with regards to variety and rest at training, but I really thought in the 2014 EOYT some of the players looked a bit jaded at the back end and some of that has continued into this season. Mostly Hooper, Foley, Kepu, Slipper, Folau and Simmons were my major worries - and I think each of these (with the exception of Simmons who had an injury induced rest) have had a few lulls in their Super Rugby season where they looked like they might benefit from a weeks rest. To me that benefits the squad depth as well as the player rested. For certain it doesn't seemed to have hurt the NZ teams who have rested their All Blacks.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I've just had another look at the train-on squad that was announced on Sunday for the TRC and I'm actually wondering if the current thinking is to rest Waratahs & Brumbies players from the first 2 games of the TRC, but bring them back into contention if they get knocked out of the comp before the final. It could also explain why the 3 O/S players were left out for now, no need to bring them back unless they are needed.
So let's just assume for a sec everything goes right for the Brumbes & Tahs and they both play in the final and their players are rested from the first 2 games. Lets also rest Slipper and McCalman, and lets call in the 3 O/S players. From the squad named (as an example) you could field the following:
1. Holmes
2. Fainga'a
3. Faulkner
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6. McMahon
7. Gill
8. Higginbotham
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Cummins
12. Giteau
13. Kerevi
14. Mitchell
15. O'Connor
16. Hansen
17. PAE
18. T Smith
19. Coleman
20. Jones
21. G Smith
22. White *
23. Hunt
* White included as a 9 is needed for the bench.
It's highly unlikely that both the Brumbies and Tahs will make the final of course, but this team is a 'worst case' for the first 2 games. The only new cap for the run on 15 there is Kerevi whose likely to play for Aus in the future anway, and off the bench PAE, T Smith, Coleman and Hunt could get caps.
So let's just assume for a sec everything goes right for the Brumbes & Tahs and they both play in the final and their players are rested from the first 2 games. Lets also rest Slipper and McCalman, and lets call in the 3 O/S players. From the squad named (as an example) you could field the following:
1. Holmes
2. Fainga'a
3. Faulkner
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6. McMahon
7. Gill
8. Higginbotham
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Cummins
12. Giteau
13. Kerevi
14. Mitchell
15. O'Connor
16. Hansen
17. PAE
18. T Smith
19. Coleman
20. Jones
21. G Smith
22. White *
23. Hunt
* White included as a 9 is needed for the bench.
It's highly unlikely that both the Brumbies and Tahs will make the final of course, but this team is a 'worst case' for the first 2 games. The only new cap for the run on 15 there is Kerevi whose likely to play for Aus in the future anway, and off the bench PAE, T Smith, Coleman and Hunt could get caps.
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