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Wallabies world cup squad selection

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Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
If Burgess comes anywhere near the 22 for World Cup we are doomed.

How many other current Wallaby selections who also play for the Tahs would you want on this list?

Burgess might play 9 in a different style to most other Australian 9's, but over all three rounds so far he has been the standout 9, with daylight second.
 
G

GC

Guest
Burgess has been the better halfback in the 3 rounds to date. However, Genia is rapidly getting back to his best and was only just pipped this week. If Cooper is the fly-half, Genia will definitely be the halfback. If it is to be Barnes, there's a good case for Burgess. He has however, repeatedly failed at Test level, which the selectors will take into account.
 

vidiot

John Solomon (38)
Burgess has been the better halfback in the 3 rounds to date. However, Genia is rapidly getting back to his best and was only just pipped this week. If Cooper is the fly-half, Genia will definitely be the halfback. If it is to be Barnes, there's a good case for Burgess. He has however, repeatedly failed at Test level, which the selectors will take into account.

Thats a little harsh on Burgess. He has had his faults, and his strengths. There are still periods when his hyperactivity and snap crazy decisions make you wonder exactly how his brain is wired, and sometimes it seems his hands are paddles. That has been minimal this season and both his passing and his decision making were exemplary against the Crusaders.

He actually plays quite well with Cooper. Coopers great handling and poor defense are almost complementary.
 
W

WB3

Guest
Burgess has shown himself to be an exceptional bench player at test level. His incredible energy and enthusiasm have meant that playing him for 20 minutes against tired opposition is particularly effective, giving him more room to snipe as he is wont to do whilst his aggressive defense tends to lift his teammates. I think he is certainly a respectable option in this capacity. What I wonder is whether his game management and decision making matches that of Genia, and that is why I tend to prefer the latter as a starting player unless Burgess continues to outperform Genia for the rest of the S15.

I honestly don't think I will weigh too much further into this discussion for another few weeks at least. I can tell you what I thought of people's form last year, but given how far off the actual selection period is most of what we say is speculation based on our perception of what, by the time the selectors begin choosing a squad, is a largely irrelevant time period. We can all say the people we class as certain inclusions, (TPN, Sharpie, Pocock et al) but commenting on the fringe players and contentious positions is going to be difficult to say the least until the tournament has run enough of its course to give a reasonable account of each player.
 
P

Parra GM

Guest
Burgess has shown himself to be an exceptional bench player at test level. His incredible energy and enthusiasm have meant that playing him for 20 minutes against tired opposition is particularly effective, giving him more room to snipe as he is wont to do whilst his aggressive defense tends to lift his teammates. I think he is certainly a respectable option in this capacity. What I wonder is whether his game management and decision making matches that of Genia, and that is why I tend to prefer the latter as a starting player unless Burgess continues to outperform Genia for the rest of the S15.

I honestly don't think I will weigh too much further into this discussion for another few weeks at least. I can tell you what I thought of people's form last year, but given how far off the actual selection period is most of what we say is speculation based on our perception of what, by the time the selectors begin choosing a squad, is a largely irrelevant time period. We can all say the people we class as certain inclusions, (TPN, Sharpie, Pocock et al) but commenting on the fringe players and contentious positions is going to be difficult to say the least until the tournament has run enough of its course to give a reasonable account of each player.

Agree..I'll reserve comment til the selections are nearer. However it will be interesting to see if any 50/50 calls go the way of the Reds like it did in 2010. Might have something to do with the birthplace of the ARU GM HPU!
 

Joe Mac

Arch Winning (36)
I know this is a little off the current scrum half discussion but I think Mowen's form this season + his size has warranted a bench spot for him for the WC (so far).

He is one of Australia's best performers at line-out. He is versatile, easily slotting into, 4,5,6 and 8 which is a very valuable attribute when you are playing many games like in the WC. I would like to see the end of Dean Mumm in selections with Mowen as his replacement.
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
I know this is a little off the current scrum half discussion but I think Mowen's form this season + his size has warranted a bench spot for him for the WC (so far).

He is one of Australia's best performers at line-out. He is versatile, easily slotting into, 4,5,6 and 8 which is a very valuable attribute when you are playing many games like in the WC. I would like to see the end of Dean Mumm in selections with Mowen as his replacement.

I don't know about an "end" to Mummy, as I do see them as different players. In essence, Mumm is a 4/6 and Mowen is a 6/8. However, I agree that on form Mumm's squad position should go to Mowen for sure. I think Mumm should be up against Simmons, Douglas, Wykes and I guess Van the Man for the spare second rower/s spots.
 
T

Tank

Guest
By memory most of those penalties seemed to be Alexander folding in and/or arm on the ground, which made me wonder how much of it was actually Slipper unable to hold the pressure from Squeaky, hence rolling in / tugging on bind. At least one close up I saw seemed to confirm it. Could be wrong though.

Gagger, I'd be interested in what you mean here - if the pressure comes from Moore, onto Slipper and he then transfers it to Alexander and Alexander goes down, isn't it Alexander that was unable to hold the pressure?

I haven't watched the tape but I remember thinking in the first half (when the cameras were on that side though!) that Slipper was all over Alexander like a fat kid on a cream bun.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Can't say I noticed first time round. Guess I was more intrigued in the first half by what was happening with the two Wallaby props at the centre of the most of the scrum penalties in that period.

By memory most of those penalties seemed to be Alexander folding in and/or arm on the ground, which made me wonder how much of it was actually Slipper unable to hold the pressure from Squeaky, hence rolling in / tugging on bind. At least one close up I saw seemed to confirm it. Could be wrong though.

A prop is allowed to bind on the side of back of the opposing prop, how slipper has bound here is perfectly ok, to get into semantics, you could have a ref say that slippers hand is applying some pressure to Alexanders arm... But you really cant say this is the reason that Alexander couldnt keep his body up, there is no way Slipper would be able to exert that much physical pressure from the way his arm is positioned to cause Alexander to collapse.
scrum4.png


This is the definition of binding on a players arm
ScrumPalmer1.png



to me, this photo tells the story, i painstakingly went back through and watched it, and my opinion is that Alexander just couldn't pack as low as Slipper, watch every scrum where his arm goes down, and his upper body is angled towards the ground, the ref could justifiably penalized him for having his shoulders below his hips.
scrum2.png
 

spectator

Bob Davidson (42)
I honestly don't think I will weigh too much further into this discussion for another few weeks at least. I can tell you what I thought of people's form last year, but given how far off the actual selection period is most of what we say is speculation based on our perception of what, by the time the selectors begin choosing a squad, is a largely irrelevant time period. We can all say the people we class as certain inclusions, (TPN, Sharpie, Pocock et al) but commenting on the fringe players and contentious positions is going to be difficult to say the least until the tournament has run enough of its course to give a reasonable account of each player.

Agree, too early.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
to me, this photo tells the story, i painstakingly went back through and watched it, and my opinion is that Alexander just couldn't pack as low as Slipper, watch every scrum where his arm goes down, and his upper body is angled towards the ground, the ref could justifiably penalized him for having his shoulders below his hips.
scrum2.png

I don't want to buy into discussions on the relative merits of particular players, but the photo TOCC has supplied here is clear evidence of a player committing two penalisable offences as he suggests. Alexander has his hand on the ground and his shoulders are very obviously below his hips. By contrast Slipper's bind appears legal - just - and his shoulders are certainly no lower than his hips. I have no idea what is going on on the other side of the scrum, and I assume the referee was on the other side given that it was a Reds' put-in, but clearly the assistant referee on this side of the scrum should have drawn attention to the two breaches of the law.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
In those 3 stills you've chosen TOCC the binds seem fine of course, they're not the bind I have in my minds eye - it was (the reverse) of the one you've got on Daley above.

I do agree though that Alexander was having positioning problems like you and Austin have pointed out.

Gagger, I'd be interested in what you mean here - if the pressure comes from Moore, onto Slipper and he then transfers it to Alexander and Alexander goes down, isn't it Alexander that was unable to hold the pressure?

Alexander's packing only on Slipper, so if Slipper rolls under pressure Alexander's got no where else to go.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
How is Slipper rolling in? In the still his shoulders are still square and he is shoulders above hips. Alexander on the other hand is not square across the shoulders (his left shoulder is lower in the shot and was before he put his hand down) and is clearly shoulders below hips. In fact go back a few frames and he was in this position when he set and the angles became greater on engagement.

This is exactly the same offence he was getting penalised for last year and in the EOYT against the Frog. He has a flaw in his technique which has got no attention in either Wallaby or Brumbies camps.

But forget all that because he can run in the backs and score tries.

Oh and its bullshit that the LHP has no where to go if the THP rolls in. He is the least locked man in the front row and can drive along the opposing THP into the second row or chase the THP and drive him into the ground.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Wipe the froth and re-read my post above - I agreed Alexanders positioning isn't right

If Slipper's rolling in and binding on Alexanders arm then it's more than likely he'll go the same way. I guess that's one of the reasons why they don't let you bind on the arm.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
In those 3 stills you've chosen TOCC the binds seem fine of course, they're not the bind I have in my minds eye - it was (the reverse) of the one you've got on Daley above.

I do agree though that Alexander was having positioning problems like you and Austin have pointed out.



Alexander's packing only on Slipper, so if Slipper rolls under pressure Alexander's got no where else to go.

Gagger I'm pretty sure I checked them all, if you can tell me when this scrum happened I will get a screenshot....

It seems as though you are looking at Slipper critically for a reason as to why Alexander couldn't stay up... Kind of bewildering considering the amount of penalties Alexander earned in 2010 S14 from collapsing scrims, it's hardly as though this is a one off match for him.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
No fair enough, it was just what I thought I saw in the game live - I will stand corrected! Is there a hands up emoticon?

I've unwittingly become seen as a defender of Alexander's scrummaging prowess, definitely not my intention. Although subconsciously I was maybe hoping our incumbent Wallaby prop wasn't getting owned again.

Although, this would have been at LHP anyway......what a mess. I blame player power.
 

Finsbury Girl

Trevor Allan (34)
How many other current Wallaby selections who also play for the Tahs would you want on this list?

Burgess might play 9 in a different style to most other Australian 9's, but over all three rounds so far he has been the standout 9, with daylight second.

He has previous. Deffo not test standard.
 
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