Wallabies Watch

[USARugger]

Just leaving aside the QC (Quade Cooper) defence issue itself - I was interested to watch 2 highly rated Kiwi 10's defensive patterns this weekend.
Cruden is a very poor tackler - unless he has a right shoulder injury there was no excuse for his failure to offer a shoulder, when someone stepped back inside him, in the course of a try being scored.
Barrett regularly drops back to run the ball back - this makes sense to me as your best passer/reader of the game is a big asset back there to organise 11, 14 and 15. Most of the time he defends in the line.
QC (Quade Cooper) put a big hit on Rene Ranger - which looked no arms from some angles but was, in fact, a damned good tackle. Better men than QC (Quade Cooper) have been swamped by Ranger this season. QC (Quade Cooper) deserves some credit for this.

I think moving Kahui inside was partially to help shore up for Cruden's defense. He's never been a spectacular defender and he is a really small guy, he got exposed a bit during the Reds match as well.

Ranger is a human wrecking ball, was definitely impressed by Quade stopping him in his tracks.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think moving Kahui inside was partially to help shore up for Cruden's defense. He's never been a spectacular defender and he is a really small guy, he got exposed a bit during the Reds match as well.

Ranger is a human wrecking ball, was definitely impressed by Quade stopping him in his tracks.

Im sure youre right about Kahui - though it would have been hard for him to do anything on Cruden's inside. He is small but so is Nic White, for example.

 

[USARugger]

Nic White plays a sweeping role on defense though. Tackling someone from the side and having a 120kg forward running right down your channel when you weigh 83kgs are two very different things. Most of the front-on tackling White would be asked to do would be at scrum or line out time where the piggies can't build up a head of steam.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nic White plays a sweeping role on defense though. Tackling someone from the side and having a 120kg forward running right down your channel when you weigh 83kgs are two very different things. Most of the front-on tackling White would be asked to do would be at scrum or line out time where the piggies can't build up a head of steam.

Cruden's miss was on a fellow princess and would have been made had he put a shoulder into it rather than using a boom gate technique.
Anyway, the bigger they are the harder they fall.
PLUS - he disregarded the golden rule: STAY ON THE Inside Shoulder

 

[Chronicle]

Nic White plays a sweeping role on defense though. Tackling someone from the side and having a 120kg forward running right down your channel when you weigh 83kgs are two very different things. Most of the front-on tackling White would be asked to do would be at scrum or line out time where the piggies can't build up a head of steam.

Don't know which games you have been watching but White defends up in the line when I have seen him play and the stats make him one of BRumbies leading tacklers

 

[USARugger]

Ah sorry, I was talking about Cruden's defense as a whole. Wasn't just pointing towards Cooper making him look a bit silly in front of the posts.

Last I played for an outside shoulder defensive system

Chronicle

Wasn't knocking White and never said he couldn't defend in the line.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ah sorry, I was talking about Cruden's defense as a whole. Wasn't just pointing towards Cooper making him look a bit silly in front of the posts.

Last I played for an outside shoulder defensive system

Chronicle

Wasn't knocking White and never said he couldn't defend in the line.

My theory: outside is fine from set pieces but it requires tackle dominance to continue working

 

[USARugger]

My theory: outside is fine from set pieces but it requires tackle dominance to continue working

Yup! It's risky but if you pull it off it can create insane amounts of pressure on the opposition. We definitely had ups and downs using it.

 

[Scotty]

Any flyhalf needs to defend in the line, not just Quade. The reason other teams don't switch the flyhalf and fullback in attack and defence is they don't need to. It's a substantial added complexity and an obvious impediment to fast realignment. If JOC (James O'Connor) was playing 10 he'd defend there, as would Barnes, and every other flyhalf in the country.

Quade isn't defending at the back to unleash his attacking potential. He's there because he's a liability in the 10 channel. That's obvious. You don't see Dan Carter defending at the back. He's in the thick of it to make the most of turnover ball which is the best counter-attacking opportunity of all.

That's what Deans means when he says there's nowhere to hide in test rugby.

And it's O'Connor.

You are only partially correct. I think he is at full back for both defense and attack reasons. However he has now shown he no longer needs to be there for the defensive ones.

If a Mogg or Latham were playing fullback for the Reds then we'd see quade do exactly what carter does. Defend in the line when he has to, but often drop back to provide 4 at the back and better counter attack potential.

 

[Sully]

No other teams moves their 10 in defence? Because it's so complicated! Not only is that ridiculous it is just not true. Lots of teams do it for lots of different reasons. Why would you want to wear out your attacking lynch pin tackling big forwards all day? The only reason I can see is 'because that's the way we did it when I was a boy'. Well that's not a reason, that's bulldust.

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[Joe Blow]

No other teams moves their 10 in defence? Because it's so complicated! Not only is that ridiculous it is just not true. Lots of teams do it for lots of different reasons. Why would you want to wear out your attacking lynch pin tackling big forwards all day? The only reason I can see is 'because that's the way we did it when I was a boy'. Well that's not a reason, that's bulldust.

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They pretty much all do it in test rugby at least some of the time. Generally 5/8s have a very good boot and as playmakers can make things happen with space and a couple of fast blokes around them. If there is a chance that the opposition will kick they fall back.

Carter
M. Steyn
Wilko
etc etc

QC (Quade Cooper) needs to bring up his tackle completion number, which he appears to be doing, but he will not defend in the line all of the time.

 

[Rassie]

Just leaving aside the QC (Quade Cooper) defence issue itself - I was interested to watch 2 highly rated Kiwi 10's defensive patterns this weekend.
Cruden is a very poor tackler - unless he has a right shoulder injury there was no excuse for his failure to offer a shoulder, when someone stepped back inside him, in the course of a try being scored.
Barrett regularly drops back to run the ball back - this makes sense to me as your best passer/reader of the game is a big asset back there to organise 11, 14 and 15. Most of the time he defends in the line.
QC (Quade Cooper) put a big hit on Rene Ranger - which looked no arms from some angles but was, in fact, a damned good tackle. Better men than QC (Quade Cooper) have been swamped by Ranger this season. QC (Quade Cooper) deserves some credit for this.

It is not the inside backs job to bring down the big oakes. The idea is to hold him up till the forwards arrive till the forwards arrive to bring him down. Just have a look at Peter Grant of the Stormers how he does it. He is not the best defender but he held on forwards brought them down and he rejoins the line. So the backs are still in their defensive line as only a forward is commited.

 

[Rassie]

No other teams moves their 10 in defence? Because it's so complicated! Not only is that ridiculous it is just not true. Lots of teams do it for lots of different reasons. Why would you want to wear out your attacking lynch pin tackling big forwards all day? The only reason I can see is 'because that's the way we did it when I was a boy'. Well that's not a reason, that's bulldust.

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The Bulls, Kings and Sharks do it a lot due to tactical reasons. They do it when they are going to receive a kick and their fullbacks are not the best gifted with tactical kicking. So they will drop Steyn, Lambie or Catrakilis back to boot it back again to pin them in their own half. Stormers have mini Percy who can kick so they do not have to do it.

 

[Ash]

Any flyhalf needs to defend in the line, not just Quade. The reason other teams don't switch the flyhalf and fullback in attack and defence is they don't need to. It's a substantial added complexity and an obvious impediment to fast realignment. If JOC (James O'Connor) was playing 10 he'd defend there, as would Barnes, and every other flyhalf in the country.

Quade isn't defending at the back to unleash his attacking potential. He's there because he's a liability in the 10 channel. That's obvious. You don't see Dan Carter defending at the back. He's in the thick of it to make the most of turnover ball which is the best counter-attacking opportunity of all.

That's what Deans means when he says there's nowhere to hide in test rugby.

And it's O'Connor.

Actually, disagree on NZ fullbacks. I suggest you watch Dan Carter, and just how often the guy drops back in general play.

Many fly halves move around in defence, not just Quade.

 

[Rassie]

Actually, disagree on NZ fullbacks. I suggest you watch Dan Carter, and just how often the guy drops back in general play.

Many fly halves move around in defence, not just Quade.

They main concern about Quade maybe fielding from 15 as I am sure Gatland is going to do what England did and employ someone to blitz Cooper like England did with moody.

Talking about Carter. The Kiwi's use the one-out defense at times. If the back row and half back can defend number 10 and the inside channel, then your fly-half can move out onto the 12, 12 onto 13 and so on.

And that is what they did and England send Tuilagi down the lane and he smashed over Carter and smashed the 9 and drawing the fullback then offload it to Ashton for the try. People think England identify the rucks and and went hard at NZ in it as the reason for that win but what England did not tell anyone is that they had the NZ defensive pattern worked out to the finest detail.

They are going to blitz Quade to reduce his time but I am sure they won't make the mistake like Wales did and Blitz the outside backs with the 2nd last man shooting up. It will work against players will a lesser skill set like the Bulls but against Australia they will get murdered.

 

[cyclopath]

Actually, disagree on NZ fullbacks. I suggest you watch Dan Carter, and just how often the guy drops back in general play.

Many fly halves move around in defence, not just Quade.

They do. It is not often we see them do it as a routine, as Link does with Quade, and it obviously serves a purpose. In the past, his rare tackling forays were poor, now not so, and it become clearer than he can tackle well enough. I still think routinely shuffling the 10 back and forth is risky in Tests, but at times is perfectly sensible. It also depends who else you have at the back as to how counter-attack might run - it might not be necessary to put him back there if you have others who can do it.
Like many truisms in rugby forum discussion, Quade can never tackle, despite any evidence to the contrary!

 

[TOCC]

Doesn't Aaron Cruden defend at 13 and not 5/8?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Doesn't Aaron Cruden defend at 13 and not 5/8?

what I saw was from broken play - in the sense that it was at least 2nd phase and he was coming from about 1 off the ruck.

 

[qwerty51]

1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore
3. James Slipper
4. Sam Carter
5. James Horwill
6. Scott Higginbotham
7. Liam Gill
8. Ben Mowen
9. Will Genia
10. Matt To'omua
11. Israel Folau
12. Christian Lealiifano
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Henry Speight
15. Jesse Mogg

 

[Groucho]

Higginbotham made a big statement today against the Crusaders.