Wallabies Watch

[TSR]

But why put him at 15 when he can be even more dangerous at 10? Genia and Cooper need some continuity which they did not have a lot of in their partnership the last year or two. Gregan and Larkham had a long partnership which Australia benefited from which was build in time. Gregan ran the show but he always knew where Larkham was and when to give it to him to make the decisions. He could have played blindfolded and he would still knew where he was. Yes Larkham was dangerous at fullback but he was even more playing at 10.

Funny, I guess we see different things. One of the great things I see in Genia & Cooper is that when there is a turnover, Genia seems to instinctively know where Cooper is already. He regularly hits Cooper with a long pass running from the back on the changeover which sparks a counter attack for the Reds. If he Cooper is in the front line he is more likely to only have one way to go (ie whichever side of the ruck he is already on).

Cooper has great acceleration and speed and Genia has a good enough pass to hit him at distance.

 

[Scotty]

I believe he will ignore the Brumbies and Reds and the bulk of his side will come from the Tahs. Especially after they played 1 good game.

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Exactly. He will go for a set piece pack that fails to dominate the breakdown. He will go for a back line that can defend but struggles with the ball in hand.

The reds and brumbies are on the top of the table because by and large they have dominated the breakdown area so far this season. Deans' comment about the work players do off the ball is very apt, and he should take a look at that area himself and pick a team that can hold their own on set piece but really pressure and hopefully dominate the contact area and breakdown.

 

[Sully]

Only their scrum is better. The Brumbies and Reds have better lineouts.

 

[USARugger]

Is the Tahs scrum really even that much stronger than the Brumbies? Or even the Reds?

 

[Rassie]

Funny, I guess we see different things. One of the great things I see in Genia & Cooper is that when there is a turnover, Genia seems to instinctively know where Cooper is already. He regularly hits Cooper with a long pass running from the back on the changeover which sparks a counter attack for the Reds. If he Cooper is in the front line he is more likely to only have one way to go (ie whichever side of the ruck he is already on).

Cooper has great acceleration and speed and Genia has a good enough pass to hit him at distance.

That is not only the only key for the Reds that is. Genia can throw it instinctively to Cooper but is it after the front 5 made the hard yards and the back three go them their quick recycles and Cooper had Digby lurking somewhere or is it receiving ball under pressure which is slow and no space to work their creativity in?

 

[TSR]

That is not only the only key for the Reds that is. Genia can throw it instinctively to Cooper but is it after the front 5 made the hard yards and the back three go them their quick recycles and Cooper had Digby lurking somewhere or is it receiving ball under pressure which is slow and no space to work their creativity in?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but your post has confused me.

I was specifically talking turnover ball, though. I agree (I think) that the Reds use lots of other options at other times - and even on turnover ball. Like Hookers chipping for the corner.

 

[Scotty]

The Reds really only have a 9, 10 and 11 that are wallabies material (Tapuai looks lost at the moment). Yet most weeks they look like one of the most dangerous back lines in the competition.

When will Deans wake up to this being down to the forwards fantastic breakdown work coupled with the creativity and organisation of Genia and Cooper?

 

[Rassie]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but your post has confused me.

I was specifically talking turnover ball, though. I agree (I think) that the Reds use lots of other options at other times - and even on turnover ball. Like Hookers chipping for the corner.

lol But turn overs is just one part of the attack. Reds rely heavily on their forwards and big runners to get them upfield. That is when Cooper shine. You need to create the space for him and to do that they use that quick recycles. Counter attack is good but one can't rely on it for everything as adaption is the key in winning a tournament like this. And you need to win the rucks and get the clean breaks.

 

[Scotty]

PS I'm not advocating picking a team of reds, but rather picking a high work rate forward pack and creative halves.

1 Robinson/Alexander
2 Moore
3 slipper
4 Douglas
5 horwill
6 mowen/Mmm
7 smith/gill
8 Palu
9 Genia
10 cooper
11 Ioane
12 Lilo
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 folau
15 JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[TSR]

Yeah - definitely. When I quoted your earlier post, I figured it was a comment on Cooper defending at 15. That was why I referred to counter attack. Don't disagree with any of your last post though.

 

[Rassie]

Yeah - definitely. When I quoted your earlier post, I figured it was a comment on Cooper defending at 15. That was why I referred to counter attack. Don't disagree with any of your last post though.

Him defending at 15 is it to counter the traffic getting sent down his channel by the opposition or is it in a attacking sense? I have to ask where is his flanker that is suppose to look after him? We had a couple of bad defending fly halves but they could get away with it by having some quality flankers looking after them. And its not his job to tackle the big guys. He must just hold him up long enough for the forwards to arrive and bring him down so that the defensive line can reset. So you will see the 10's have developed all some kind of technique they call a tackle. Steyn do the Judo throw.

 

[Sully]

Or we can just do what works for us and you guys can do what works for you. And neither of us will tell the other one they're doing it wrong.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH - you keep throwing Barnes name up. But I can't even see a place for him in the Waratahs starting side at the moment. IMO Foley, Horne & Folau are playing too well for him to get a look in at 10, 12 or 15 (baring injury).

Serious question - if you still feel he is a contender for the Wallabies, what position will he be starting for the Waratahs when he returns from injury?

If he's fit again against the Stormers and there are no injuries they'll either bring him back via the bench for a game or give someone like Rob Horne a rest and play him at 12 or give a winger a rest, move Folau to the wing and play Barnes at 15.

The other option would be to rest AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), put Horne at 13 and Barnes at 12.

I think they'll find a spot for him pretty quickly. He's a quality option.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Foley, Folau and to a lesser extent Horne have all played close to every minute of the season. There will be some desire to give them some rest if Barnes is ready to play.

In regards to the Wallabies, I think Beale and O'Connor are still the two most likely to play 10 in the first Lions test and Folau, Mogg and Barnes are the three most likely to play fullback.

If Folau and Mogg weren't playing so well, I'd still have put Barnes as the most likely to play fullback (even with the amount of time injured) but Folau and Mogg are looking more and more like Wallabies every week.

With 5 or 6 Super Rugby games left for each Australian franchise between now and when the initial Lions squad is selected, I think you can almost wipe the slate clean in terms of early season form. Form in these upcoming games is going to dictate who is selected and who misses out. No one is going to remember someone's early season brilliance if they drop away now and likewise, no one is going to remember someone having a quiet start to the season if they show excellent form in the coming weeks.

 

[qwerty51]

Play Folau at 13 for one game just to see how it goes I reckon.

 

[Braveheart81]

Play Folau at 13 for one game just to see how it goes I reckon.

I think it will depend how the Tahs go in the next few games. If they still believe they're a sniff of making the semis I don't think there'll be too much experimentation.

 

[Rassie]

Or we can just do what works for us and you guys can do what works for you. And neither of us will tell the other one they're doing it wrong.

exactly

 

[Sully]

Or we can just do what works for us and you guys can do what works for you. And neither of us will tell the other one they're doing it wrong.

exactly

Even if you are!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I believe Deans will pick JOC (James O'Connor)

If so, then that is one hell of a grudge that Dingo has over Quadegate. Looks like he must have forgotten about Photogate when Bieber got liquored up and forgot to turn up for the Qantas photoshoot prior to RWC 11.

Bieber has looked very ordinary at #10, and there are some that would argue that SNK has better current form as a #10 than Bieberboy.

 

[TSR]

Sorry BH, I suppose the point of my post was more that I don't think Barnes will make the Waratahs first choice xv. He may well get a chance to give others a rest, but all of the other options involve leaving out Foley, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Folau. I don't mean it as in insult to Barnes - it is a complement to the guys in there who are generally performing. When the whips are cracking I think Cheika will stick with the guys there. As an extension of that, I don't see Barnes getting a call up to the tests if he not starting for the Tahs.

You are also assuming the other guys will drop in form, allowing their 'slate to be cleaned'. Maybe, maybe not.

I agree that it's not too late for Beale or Barnes, but the window is closing pretty fast.

Edit: sorry, you are right. One option is to move Folau to the wing. I hope he doesn't though - Folau is starting to really go well where he is.

 

[Braveheart81]

If so, then that is one hell of a grudge that Dingo has over Quadegate. Looks like he must have forgotten about Photogate when Bieber got liquored up and forgot to turn up for the Qantas photoshoot prior to RWC 11.

I don't think it has anything to do with that.

I think it has plenty to do with the fact that Cooper has struggled to replicate his Super Rugby form in Test Rugby. The way Cooper plays is more likely to result in either brilliance or disaster. You wouldn't really call his style of play steady.

In a closely matched test match, Cooper is probably equally likely to lose the game for you as he is to win it for you. Perhaps Deans thinks that with a steadier player in the 10 jersey, the result is more likely to come down to a whole team performance.

As I've said previously, I think JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are the two most likely to get the 10 role in the first test.