Wallabies Watch

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^ If I have interpreted some posts on another board correctly (no guarantee of that) the general Les Frogge philosophy is that #9 is a more important position than #10. (from the discussion on why Burgess may not be the right fit for Frog rugby).

I take it you don't agree?
A powerful indicator that there's something in this view is the fact that when teams are going not so well we quickly turn on the #9.
Also look how quickly we lose faith in each new Wallaby #9.
Its only because Genia has been out injured that we haven't turned on him.
Burgess was the messiah when he appeared on the scene at the Tahs - having done his apprenticeship at the Brumbies - and within 3 seasons everyone was lamenting his delivery: now we all want him back.
Gregan - the last 50 tests were played on sufferance!
finally, look at any team you rate and I'll bet they have a good half - Brumbies are a good example: White is great (IMO): I really like Tomua but he's hardly a proven commodity yet, same with Lilo and yet, because theyre outside White, people (including me) think there pretty close to good enough.
find me a good halfand I'll find you a 10 who can do what you want....except maybe those 30m passes

 

[Richo]

Also look how quickly we lose faith in each new Wallaby #9.
Its only because Genia has been out injured that we haven't turned on him.

Speak for yourself.

I think Aussie rugby fans expect our team to be the best in the world most of the time, but we don't often have the cattle. That expectation encourages a hunt for scapegoats rather than recognition of more systemic problems, including reality.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I don't disagree that a great #9 is important to any great team, and great #10, even though they (#9) are cheating runt little fox terriers with their constant chattering, nipping at the heels of lazy piggies and their crooked scrum feeds.

My reference to the French situation was more to show that others think similar about the importance of having one of the better (first choice) player as the #9.

For me, I think more in combinations than individuals. i.e.
The front row
the hooker and lineout jumpers
the loose forwards
the 9/10
the centres
the back 3

Most legends in world footy have normally had sub-legends in close proximity to them.

 

[Pete King]

Carter is a strong defender, too. As was Bernie.

To'omua has shown to be a good defender, I think he together with Lilo at 12 is the Wallabies best 10,12 option. I think this frees up selection to put JOC (James O'Connor) at 14 with a licence to roam and pop up at first receiver, with also diggers (11) either beale or Mogg (15) there is plenty attacking flair/speed. 13 options look pretty dim for mine Taps/fainga/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Dont think Inman is up to it.

 

[Richo]

I'd like to see a lot more of To'omua playing at this standard.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't disagree that a great #9 is important to any great team, and great #10, even though they (#9) are cheating runt little fox terriers with their constant chattering, nipping at the heels of lazy piggies and their crooked scrum feeds.

My reference to the French situation was more to show that others think similar about the importance of having one of the better (first choice) player as the #9.

For me, I think more in combinations than individuals. i.e.
The front row
the hooker and lineout jumpers
the loose forwards
the 9/10
the centres
the back 3

Most legends in world footy have normally had sub-legends in close proximity to them.

Yeah but that's how you get a world championship team.
If we want to compete reliably and given what Richo correctly says about systemic issues, we need to start my #9 crusade - good 9s in all levels of the game will get everyone playing better and improving our national product - very often its the last thing junior teams think of.

 

[wamberal]

Lilo was the stand-out 10 last season until his unfortunate injury. Just saying.

 

[barbarian]

Lilo was the stand-out 10 last season until his unfortunate injury. Just saying.

And Dave Dennis was the standout 6.
.

 

[Groucho]

To'omua has shown to be a good defender, I think he together with Lilo at 12 is the Wallabies best 10,12 option. I think this frees up selection to put JOC (James O'Connor) at 14 with a licence to roam and pop up at first receiver, with also diggers (11) either beale or Mogg (15) there is plenty attacking flair/speed. 13 options look pretty dim for mine Taps/fainga/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Dont think Inman is up to it.

Maybe it's time to try Dwyer's theory of Beale at 13.

I'm not really serious of course. It's a year too late for those experiments.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Standout 10s in Australia are To'omua and Ebersohn. Looks like Beale is going to be 10 though.

 

[Brumbieman]

If Beale plays 10 we're fucked.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Of course. But we can't pick anyone else. At least, we won't.

 

[barbarian]

If Beale plays 10 we're fucked.

No we are not, that's a bit of a silly thing to say. We beat Wales and England with him at 10. And South Africa and Argentina. We can beat the Lions too. And he seems the only option at the moment.
.

 

[Dumbledore]

Standout 10s in Australia are To'omua and Ebersohn. Looks like Beale is going to be 10 though.

He definitely hasn't been. He's had a couple of acceptable games but hasn't been anything special. To'omua has been good but has had the benefit of playing behind an utterly dominant pack and with a very, very good scrumhalf and inside centre.

 

[Brumbieman]

No we are not, that's a bit of a silly thing to say. We beat Wales and England with him at 10. And South Africa and Argentina. We can beat the Lions too. And he seems the only option at the moment.
.

Playing rugby that even the most long suffering Tahs fans couldn't stomach. It says a lot when you score more tries with Berrick Barnes at flyhalf.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

He definitely hasn't been. He's had a couple of acceptable games but hasn't been anything special. To'omua has been good but has had the benefit of playing behind an utterly dominant pack and with a very, very good scrumhalf and inside centre.

Sounds like we should pick them too then

 

[RoffsChoice]

Sounds like we should pick them too then

Everyone but George is available too.

 

[Dumbledore]

Sounds like we should pick them too then

Definitely. I'd love to see it. I think it's slightly unfair to get absolutely stuck into Beale when he's had to play with Phipps and Sidey. Give him White and Lilo and a bit of time and space and I reckon you'd see a different player entirely.

 

[barbarian]

Playing rugby that even the most long suffering Tahs fans couldn't stomach. It says a lot when you score more tries with Berrick Barnes at flyhalf.

But that isn't really Beale's fault.

I'm not saying he's a great 10, but he is probably our best bet in that position at the moment. And we are far from fucked with him there, or anyone for that matter.
.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

it is a shame deans neglected white on the last tour. he could have been truely tested by now.
ditto mogg.
tomane, lilo and i think mowen were all injured.

i don't see how beale could be selected at 10 on form. he's basically played one game for us and has played half that time at fullback (moving around with JOC (James O'Connor)).
i much prefer JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 to beale...though i prefer beale at 15 an JOC (James O'Connor) as a roving wing.
i subscribe to the beale at 13 theory along with dwyer and wish it had been tried in last years tests, but alas, deans stuck with rob horne.....
13 is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s position. of that there can't be any doubt. he has been very solid in a struggling team thus far this year and despite protests, he won't get unseated unless his form falls off.
im guessing 12 will go to taps or barnes.

the biggest questions are around the 2nd row (who knows where horwill is going to be...he is on a 12 month lay off), number 8 and 10.
cooper is nowhere near the 23 at the moment. i would have To'omua, lilo, beale, JOC (James O'Connor) ahead of him. possibly foley.