Wallabies Watch

[disco]

If I picked a team on form it would be different to my Wallaby team. Form in Super Rugby is one thing but test match rugby against the lions is another. We must also remember that whoever is selected will be playing blind under Deans so you really have to pick players on natural skill & instinct.

I would definitely pick these players in my 23 & then work around them.

Moore, Horwill, Hooper, Gill & Mowen up front are a must. Not saying I would start two opensides but 1 will definitely warm the bench.

Genia, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale & Ioane are in for sure & then other than 9 we have stack of options in every other position. Wing is a tough one because we have so much depth but no real standouts as each player has as many pros as cons.
Do we have any wingers with a kicking game anymore? Look at our wingers from 2001 when we beat the Lions, Andrew Walker & Joe Roff could both kick & both had a very good running game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

On form i choose:
Alexander
Moore
Palmer
Douglas
Pyle/Fardy
Higgers
Gill
Mowen
Genia
JOC (James O'Connor)
Diggers
Lealifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Tomane
Mogg

Robinson
Slipper
TPN
MMM
Aluea
White
Beale - he needs to focus on staying healthy. l
Tapuai/Inman/Cummins. tough call for me between these three. cummins would get it for a bit more diversity.

Based strictly on 2013 form, Higgers would not make the 23, Genia has played only 40 minutes so has little to no form (but will be the No9 if fit), JO'C could not possibly be put in at 10, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would also not make the 23 and MMM has insufficient form so far to warrant inclusion. In their places I suggest we would have Quirk, White, To'omua, Ant, and Fardy/Pyle. I include Ant Fainga'a even though he has had little game time because there is nobody else at 13 who has stood out.

 

[Slim 293]

The fact that we're debating about who is the best prop is a nice change. Used to be we talked about the least worst. IMO, between Robinson, Palmer, Alexander and Ryan/Slipper, we have a better stable than we have for a very long time.

Unfortunately our problem position seems to have shifted to flyhalf at the moment.........

Quade Cooper's bad habits are hurting the Reds. The No.10 has turned over possession an incredible 15 times this season. It's the second-worst record in the competition, and the only man above him, Nathan Charles, at least has the excuse of lobbing the ball into a Force lineout that has lost Nathan Sharpe. It would appear to be indicative of a Cooper campaign that has been messy from the start, when he skipped an important pre-season game to land a few blows on a Brisbane office worker. His passing on Saturday night was inaccurate, his kicking awry and he came off second best in the rare occasions he put himself in a contact situation, with ball or without. In short, a repetition of all the failings that so irked Deans in the Argentina Test last year.​

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Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/capital-gains-being-made-with-brumbies-fine-form-20130317-2g8sk.html#ixzz2NnoK8cEv​

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[Groucho]

Unfortunately our problem position seems to have shifted to flyhalf at the moment...

​

Cooper must have Buckley's chance of being selected. He has mouthed off in public, pursued a risible boxing career, rubbished the jersey, fluffed his last international appearances and is now playing badly.

 

[Dave Beat]

Do we have any wingers with a kicking game anymore? Look at our wingers from 2001 when we beat the Lions, Andrew Walker & Joe Roff could both kick & both had a very good running game.

Both had a very good running game - but could also kick

 

[USARugger]

If I picked a team on form it would be different to my Wallaby team. Form in Super Rugby is one thing but test match rugby against the lions is another. We must also remember that whoever is selected will be playing blind under Deans so you really have to pick players on natural skill & instinct.

I would definitely pick these players in my 23 & then work around them.

Moore, Horwill, Hooper, Gill & Mowen up front are a must. Not saying I would start two opensides but 1 will definitely warm the bench.

Genia, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale & Ioane are in for sure & then other than 9 we have stack of options in every other position. Wing is a tough one because we have so much depth but no real standouts as each player has as many pros as cons.
Do we have any wingers with a kicking game anymore? Look at our wingers from 2001 when we beat the Lions, Andrew Walker & Joe Roff could both kick & both had a very good running game.

What's the word with Burgess signing for the Rebels and coming back for the Lions tour? Seeing that news headline a week ago definitely raised my spirits about our depth at #9 as I really think he's the only international standard #9 we have besides Genia right now (White just needs to get some caps, he's class).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As a matter of interest is there a NZ forum where people propose picking, say, Israel Dagg at 10?
No.
Says a lot.

 

[Richo]

Says they have Dan Carter.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

.... and plenty of others #10's who would be close to first choice selections for the #10 position in most other nations but for their birthplace.

No need for them to consider doing a Larkham and turning a #15 into a #10.

 

[barbarian]

As a matter of interest is there a NZ forum where people propose picking, say, Israel Dagg at 10?
No.
Says a lot.

It really doesn't. It just says they have one of the all-time great 10s, and we do not.

And FWIW I do frequent an NZ forum and they have debated at great length putting Dan Carter at 12 to accommodate Cruden, or vice-versa. Positional debates are hardly unique to Aussie rugby.
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[I like to watch]

The difference for me is that our case would appear to be:
All the known 10's are not up to it, can we use someone out of position @ 10 to strengthen the side?
Where NZ is in the position of :
Is our World class 10 still the best option, or should we go with a younger 10 who is also in great form?
I know which debate I would prefer to be having.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

I can only see the debate over the Wallabies number 10 jersey intensify over the coming weeks.

To me, Cooper is currently playing himself out of a Wallabies cap. The two experienced alternatives in O'Connor and Beale both have their respective strengths / weaknesses and are best played in other positions.

Can we risk carrying a rookie fly half into a Lions series? Unlikely! (although I would like to see Lilo in the squad and To'omua is startingt o hit his straps).

I will reserve judgement on this debate for at least another 5 rounds. Then I'll be pushing my opinion on here.

 

[BDA]

I have no problem with Beale continuing at flyhalf. I don't think its his best position but he's still a very good flyhalf with a load of experience at Super and Test level.

Cooper is not attacking the line enough imo. He seems reticent to get involved in any physical confrontation, and just passes the ball even when it would be more effective to straighten and take the tackle. It's making him predictable and its putting the guys outsdie him under pressure. That is one thing I like about Beale and O'Connor in the playmaker role. Both like to run the ball and neither are afraid to run into the opposition. On top of that they are both better defenders than cooper/

I think a pairing of Beale/Lilo for the lions tour could work well. I like to the idea of having a second playmaker a bit wider, which is definitely working well for the Brumbies.

 

[disco]

Based strictly on 2013 form, Higgers would not make the 23, Genia has played only 40 minutes so has little to no form (but will be the No9 if fit), JO'C could not possibly be put in at 10, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would also not make the 23 and MMM has insufficient form so far to warrant inclusion. In their places I suggest we would have Quirk, White, To'omua, Ant, and Fardy/Pyle. I include Ant Fainga'a even though he has had little game time because there is nobody else at 13 who has stood out.

MMM has great form, he has only played 3 games & has basically made everyone's Aussie super rugby team of the week twice.

 

[barbarian]

MMM has great form, he has only played 3 games & has basically made everyone's Aussie super rugby team of the week twice.

I think he is a bit over-rated at this point in time. I didn't think he did anything particularly out of the ordinary on Saturday, and made similar contributions to the other 3 locks on the field. Did the bread and butter stuff, didn't fuck anything up. Stats were good but not outstanding. And yet he made multiple 'team of the week' sides.

I reckon people are looking out for him given his past. They make a mental note when he makes a hit-up 'ooh MMM is working hard', and the more people talk him up the more of a self-fulfilling prophesy it starts to become- he is in great form, he will make the Wallabies. I also think he benefits from being a good player in an average team, as opposed to a guy like Carter who is a player of similar standard to MMM but sometimes gets overlooked in a dominant pack.

Don't get me wrong, MMM is playing well. Just not as well as a lot of people seem to think IMO. I wouldn't pick him in the Wallabies yet. That may well change in the next six weeks, but I would still rate Douglas, Pyle, Carter, Horwill above him.
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[Richo]

Having now watched the Brumbies destroy the Sharks, I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to argue that they shouldn't be very strongly represented in the Wallabies. They play a direct, skilled game with excellent timing, strong support runners, etc. Their pack is dominant and To'omua, Lilo and Mohg are very skilled ball players. Much more of this and I'll be keen to see a fair bit of new blood, Lions or no. Few others are putting their hands up in a big way. If anything, most established Wallabies are having meh seasons so far or are coming back from injury.

 

[Dumbledore]

I think we need to stop talking about Horwill until he actually plays. That injury he had is horrific. I won't be the least bit surprised if his speed, leap and agility are all down. He might come back and hit the heights straight away, but the reality is he hasn't played any rugby for almost 12 months. I think we should prepare for life without him, then if he comes good it's a very, very, happy bonus.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Here's my crack at a 30 man squad based on a mix between form, experience and squad balance.

The players I've named in brackets I would happily substitute in for the aforementioned player.

Notable absentees include Kepu, Timani, Cooper, Phibbs, Dennis, Holmes, Cowan, Simmons and To'omua.

Props: Alexander, Palmer (Ryan), Robinson, Slipper
Hookers: Moore, Polota-Nau, Fainga'a
Second Row: Carter (Pyle), Douglas, Horwill**, McMenimum*
Backrow: Auela* (Cotterill), Gill, Hooper, Higginbotham, Mowen, Palu
Halfback: Genia**, White
Inside Backs: Beale, Barnes, Lealiifano, McCabe**, Tapuai
Outside Backs: Ashley Cooper, Fainga'a, Ioane, Mogg, O'Connor, Tomane (Shipperly / Cummins / Mafi)

* Assuming that form continues. McMenimum could be a great addition to the second row stocks, and Auela I am a fan of (even before his incredible game against the Sharks).

** Assuming they regain full fitness and form.

11 Brumbies
8 Reds
7 Waratahs
3 Rebels
1 Western Force

... there are a few players there on past deeds only that need a rocket... (AHEM PALU)

 

[BDA]

I think he is a bit over-rated at this point in time. I didn't think he did anything particularly out of the ordinary on Saturday, and made similar contributions to the other 3 locks on the field. Did the bread and butter stuff, didn't fuck anything up. Stats were good but not outstanding. And yet he made multiple 'team of the week' sides.

I reckon people are looking out for him given his past. They make a mental note when he makes a hit-up 'ooh MMM is working hard', and the more people talk him up the more of a self-fulfilling prophesy it starts to become- he is in great form, he will make the Wallabies. I also think he benefits from being a good player in an average team, as opposed to a guy like Carter who is a player of similar standard to MMM but sometimes gets overlooked in a dominant pack.

Don't get me wrong, MMM is playing well. Just not as well as a lot of people seem to think IMO. I wouldn't pick him in the Wallabies yet. That may well change in the next six weeks, but I would still rate Douglas, Pyle, Carter, Horwill above him.
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I agree with most of what you said but from what I've seen so far he'd be pretty high in the pecking order. Dont forget he has quite a few more test caps than Pyle, Carter and Douglas (albiet not for a few years). Also i think the argument that he stands out in an average team is a valid one, but I think that can cut both ways. I think its easier to look like a million bucks when your team are dominating (but maybe harder to stand-out). Case and point Carter and Fardy, from memory the statistics dont show these guys to be performing exceptionally, or even better, than the locks at the other franchises. I might be wrong about that if someone wishes to correct me.

Personally I see Horwill, MMM and Douglas as our three go to locks for the Lions tour. Each of them can play a tight game, each is decent at line-out time, and each has a physical presence on the field. I'm not yet sold on Pyle, Fardy, Carter, Simmons or Timani but its early days yet.

Timani showed his worth last year in terms of being able to make an impact physcially at test level, but his selection would probably be conditional on having a genuine line-out option at no.8. For instance if Palu was unavailable and was replaced by Mowen, I would have no difficulty with Timani being included to add some go forward.

 

[hench]

It really doesn't. It just says they have one of the all-time great 10s, and we do not.

And FWIW I do frequent an NZ forum and they have debated at great length putting Dan Carter at 12 to accommodate Cruden, or vice-versa. Positional debates are hardly unique to Aussie rugby.
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What's the name of the site?