Wallabies Watch

[qwerty51]

People reckon I hate him. I don't, I just don't want him anywhere near the Wallabies. It's purely performance based. I actually liked him for kneeing McCaw.

 

[cyclopath]

The glib statement, oft repeated, that Deans is a crap man manager really holds little water. His long coaching record would suggest otherwise. He may not manage all players as well as another, but it really seems a long-shot to say he has no clue.
I'm interested - from those who bemoan the "wrong" back line being selected for Quade ( I thought the 10 was part of the backline anyway) what would be his ideal backline, and why?

 

[Bairdy]

Wallabies team from the POV of Deans, at this part of the season:
1. Benn Robinson
2. Tatafu Polota Nau
3. Ben Alexander
4. James Horwill
5. Sitaleki Timani
6. Scott Higginbotham
7. George Smith
8. Wycliff Palu
9. Will Genia
10. James O'Connor
11. Digby Ioane
12. Pat McCabe
13. Adam Ashley Cooper
14. Nick Cummins
15. Berrick Barnes

16. Stephen Moore, 17. James Slipper, 18. Sekope Kepu, 19. Dave Dennis, 20. Michael Hooper, 21. Nick Phipps, 22. Rob Horne, 23. Israel Folau

 

[qwerty51]

what would be his ideal backline, and why?

The Reds backline of course! I think people don't want Quade with a non-ball playing/crashballing 12 because they think that limits his abilities.

 

[Dumbledore]

The glib statement, oft repeated, that Deans is a crap man manager really holds little water. His long coaching record would suggest otherwise. He may not manage all players as well as another, but it really seems a long-shot to say he has no clue.
I'm interested - from those who bemoan the "wrong" back line being selected for Quade ( I thought the 10 was part of the backline anyway) what would be his ideal backline, and why?

It doesn't even matter, that's the narrative now. Deans ruined Quade by picking players who didn't suit him and then hung him out to dry. Quade plays badly - Deans. Quade plays well - see h8ters he's that good that he can do it anyway. I personally think he's a brilliant, but flaky player. We don't have anyone quite like him. His long passing in particular I think could prove invaluable against the Lions. I'd like to see him starting, but I can completely understand why there's reservations about him in some quarters.

 

[Braveheart81]

So the solution is to fight fire with fire? What is the solution if we don't take risks with an open attacking game plan? The Lions will blow us off the park with kicking and their centres.

No. My solution is to play good rugby.

Merely throwing the ball wide at every opportunity isn't going to win games. You end up with isolated players and you turn the ball over and then the opposition can capitalise.

You have to pick your times to spread the ball to the edges when you have mismatches or a numerical advantage and you have to play field position.

These are games that are very likely to be won and lost based on a few key moments where we will have to take advantage of opportunities and limit our mistakes.

 

[lewisr]

It's purely performance based.

You mean reputation based. He is currently performing brilliantly.

The glib statement, oft repeated, that Deans is a crap man manager really holds little water.

I think it is telling that NZ went with Henry over Deans.

On a different note, I think Bernard Foley is quickly becoming a contender for the 10 Jersey. He is a man to watch in the future.

 

[Braveheart81]

You mean reputation based. He is currently performing brilliantly.

How so exactly? He had a strong game on Friday night against the Sharks but was ineffective the two previous weeks against the Force and the Blues.

The Reds backline is having problems at the moment and are trying to work out how to get themselves going again. They potentially did that against the Sharks but I guess we'll see in the next couple of weeks.

I don't know how you can argue that he's playing brilliantly. I think the most you could say about Cooper at the moment is that he's been fairly steady.

He was average at the start of the season until Genia came back, had a few really good games after that and then dropped off a bit. The Sharks game could be a bit of a turnaround towards good form.

His defence has been much better this season but you can hardly argue that he has the Reds backline firing on all cylinders.

 

[lewisr]

How so exactly? He had a strong game on Friday night against the Sharks but was ineffective the two previous weeks against the Force and the Blues.

The Reds backline is having problems at the moment and are trying to work out how to get themselves going again. They potentially did that against the Sharks but I guess we'll see in the next couple of weeks.

I don't know how you can argue that he's playing brilliantly. I think the most you could say about Cooper at the moment is that he's been fairly steady.

He was average at the start of the season until Genia came back, had a few really good games after that and then dropped off a bit. The Sharks game could be a bit of a turnaround towards good form.

His defence has been much better this season but you can hardly argue that he has the Reds backline firing on all cylinders.

This is kind of what I was talking about earlier. When you say he was "infective" it was more that he played a very sensible and reserved role rather than the typical risky Cooper we have come to love and hate. It wasn't all Cooper's fault. He delivered the ball and kicked well as any other 10 does in the S15 competition and didn't make any serious errors (Aaron Cruden has had his fair share and he is considered the Heir Apparent for the ABs). He just didn't win the game for the reds (against the Brumbies and Force) and therefore we say he's not good enough.

I'm sure I just look like a typical Quade tragic and I am but his 'off' days this year have not cost the games and would appear to simply be him playing the more traditional 10 role (which is what you all want, right?).

 

[Braveheart81]

When you say he was "infective" it was more that he played a very sensible and reserved role rather than the typical risky Cooper we have come to love and hate. It wasn't all Cooper's fault. He delivered the ball and kicked well as any other 10 does in the S15 competition and didn't make any serious errors.

I'm not sure how this description correlates with him performing brilliantly as you claim.

 

[lewisr]

I'm not sure how this description correlates with him performing brilliantly as you claim.

Fair point. 'Consistently at a higher level than other 10s in Australia' may have been a better choice of words.

 

[Ash]

There's two sides to the argument, the other is who deserves to be picked at 10 ahead of Cooper right now?

If Cooper had turned in some of the performances and mistake JOC (James O'Connor) has in the last two weeks, he would've been pilloried. Even Cooper's defence has been better than JOC (James O'Connor)'s for most of this year.

For all of Cooper's criticisms against him, I'm not sure that JOC (James O'Connor) has stood up and shown that he must be selected ahead of Cooper.

 

[TOCC]

How so exactly? He had a strong game on Friday night against the Sharks but was ineffective the two previous weeks against the Force and the Blues.

The Reds backline is having problems at the moment and are trying to work out how to get themselves going again. They potentially did that against the Sharks but I guess we'll see in the next couple of weeks.

I don't know how you can argue that he's playing brilliantly. I think the most you could say about Cooper at the moment is that he's been fairly steady.

He was average at the start of the season until Genia came back, had a few really good games after that and then dropped off a bit. The Sharks game could be a bit of a turnaround towards good form.

His defence has been much better this season but you can hardly argue that he has the Reds backline firing on all cylinders.

I think you need to look at the areas where the Reds were beaten or at least drawn to parity over the past few weeks, they were nullified at the ruck and in the forwards, the back-line wasn't given anything to work with... The old teaching that the forwards need to lay the platform through go-forward ball wasn't exhibited in those games.

I think purely blaming the back-line is overlooking the fundamental failure of the team as a whole, its like blaming the failure of the Tahs line-out purely on TPN, yes he is a key component, but there are other parties involved as well..

 

[TOCC]

 

[cyclopath]

Interesting, I asked a reasonable question about the backline that should "suit" Quade Cooper, and as yet, have had not one post attempt to answer it. If anyone cares to read my posts on Cooper, I have stated that I feel he is the best option at 10. I genuinely don't know what backline needs to be picked to "suit" him, or why some people feel he can't play in amongst another backline. Anyone?

 

[cyclopath]

You mean reputation based. He is currently performing brilliantly.



I think it is telling that NZ went with Henry over Deans.

On a different note, I think Bernard Foley is quickly becoming a contender for the 10 Jersey. He is a man to watch in the future.

Yes, it tells me that Henry was probably a better coach. It actually does not prove the other assertion, as it does not negate many years of successful coaching Deans had previously.

 

[Athilnaur]

Cyclo, I'd respond that one of the bigger concerns around Quade is the sense you might have to pick players around him to compensate for his playstyle, in the way the reds have with lance, or the past discussion about wanting defensive centres to compensate for his defense. I'd rather pick any given position based on our best players and the game-plan. Fair chance that will be Cooper anyway, though I noted the energy and confidence Barnes brought last night.

Briefly on Deans I think it is well known there were a few factors in play, a fair proportion felt Henry deserved another go and Deans would get his chance later, Henry had a committed coaching team while, staggeringly, Deans appears to have not turned his mind to it, and McCaw added a little impetus with his recommendation. I don't doubt the board had full confidence at the time Deans was a great coach, just that Henry was the better decision. In the end they won by one point, had they lost by one point can you imagine the sheer scale of difference it would have made to how kiwis saw the decision to appoint Henry? National Hero to just another disappointment on the vagaries of a few points in a rugby match!

.

 

[USARugger]

I think the defensive center mentality was Deans trying to enforce the strategy that served him so well at the Crusaders upon the Wallabies more than it was anything else.

Deans being complete shit as a man-manager was no secret at all leading up to the Henry v. Deans decision and was almost definitely a deciding factor.

 

[swingpass]

cyclo

genia
cooper
ioane
tapuai
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
beale/mogg

i believe QC (Quade Cooper) would be comfortable with this backline, in particular the bolded players who know when and more importantly where to run off him.

it is all out attack and i grant you has a certain defensive frailty.

personally, i'd pick Lilo at IC, Folau at FB and probably Mogg on the wing (Cummins if he is fit)

 

[TOCC]

Best back line to suit Quade? Pretty much the one which everyone has been throwing about...

Genia
Ioane
Cooper
Lilo
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau
Mogg/Beale


I think the bigger issue is the game-plan devised for this backline to play with!