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Wallabies Watch

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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Please no Horne. Just no. If we want to win this series we need attacking brilliance, not crash ball stuff. Higgers can play the crash ball

In the last month Horne has played substantially better than Tapuai. In all elements of the game. I'm not saying that Horne is likely to make the test side but his form as a 12 is better than Tapuai's currently and I'd argue he is playing better rugby than at any point previously when he was selected for the Wallabies.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
lewisr The argument against Cooper is twofold, arguably threefold. Firstly, that he is a high-risk, high-reward player - as you acknowledge. That's fine when you've got a decent run of games and time to recover from a loss. This can apply for the Soup, or an extended run of games like the Rugby Championship. If he has a shocker against the Lions then we're suddenly only one game away from losing the entire series. The second point is that in the only series comparable to the Lions, the World Cup, Cooper disintegrated. He played badly virtually the entire tournament until the third-place play-off when nothing mattered. I'm not saying I advocate the argument, but I think it's an easier argument for a coach under huge pressure to get behind. He's dominated the Soup before, and not delivered to the same level in Tests. The last point that's more open for debate is his teary about not wanting to wear the 'yellow jersey.' That's going to matter for some people inside the team.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
We won those Welsh Tests with goal kicking, If JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale/Quade were kicking, I doubt we would've. It's a huge factor and only Barnes is good at it. Lealiifano has limited range.
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
With the Baa Baa's in HK and all the tour matches they would have played together a lot more than the Wallabies prior to the BIL test series. I'm still amazed we're not playing some warm-up tests prior to the BIL series - guess it would make it a VERY long season. Granted many of the combinations a S15 level play together every weekend, but at test level it's a completely different level of intensity. I remember the first test back in 2001; the BIL were well drilled and the wallabies got a lesson that night in Brisbane. I fear something like this again if we go with too many x-factors in our team selection.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Barnes did nothing flash, but neither did he need to. He held up his pass to Folau nicely, as Habana went for the glory intercept, showing a cool head. How many horrible kicks did he make? Hard to slate him on that, USARugger. Having played so little rugby, he's not at the top of anyone's list for Wallaby 10, but it would be foolish to think he would not be somewhere in Deans' thinking to be in the squad.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
It's funny the opinion (held by some, maybe even most) is that the presence of Horne in the backline stifles attack. But it certainly hasn't been the case for the Tahs this season.......

I reckon he may well start at 12 against the Lions. He is like McCabe, but actually playing. And has the established combo with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
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lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
In the last month Horne has played substantially better than Tapuai. In all elements of the game. I'm not saying that Horne is likely to make the test side but his form as a 12 is better than Tapuai's currently and I'd argue he is playing better rugby than at any point previously when he was selected for the Wallabies.


I personally still find it one dimensional hit it up stuff... However I haven't watched too many of the Tahs games apart from tonight so can't really comment.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
It's funny the opinion (held by some, maybe even most) is that the presence of Horne in the backline stifles attack. But it certainly hasn't been the case for the Tahs this season...

I reckon he may well start at 12 against the Lions. He is like McCabe, but actually playing. And has the established combo with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
.
It has been refreshing to see his turnaround in form playing at 12 this year, rather than 13. Much better suited, especially with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) next to him. I still want to see Lealiifano in the Tests at 12.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
I'm really not keen on Horne against the Lions - especially if JOC (James O'Connor) is playing 10. A ball-playing, playmaking 12 just seems like a no-brainer to me.
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
I'm really not keen on Horne against the Lions - especially if JOC (James O'Connor) is playing 10. A ball-playing, playmaking 12 just seems like a no-brainer to me.

Especially when you have an unbreakable 13 like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
lewisr The argument against Cooper is twofold, arguably threefold. Firstly, that he is a high-risk, high-reward player - as you acknowledge. That's fine when you've got a decent run of games and time to recover from a loss. This can apply for the Soup, or an extended run of games like the Rugby Championship. If he has a shocker against the Lions then we're suddenly only one game away from losing the entire series. The second point is that in the only series comparable to the Lions, the World Cup, Cooper disintegrated. He played badly virtually the entire tournament until the third-place play-off when nothing mattered. I'm not saying I advocate the argument, but I think it's an easier argument for a coach under huge pressure to get behind. He's dominated the Soup before, and not delivered to the same level in Tests. The last point that's more open for debate is his teary about not wanting to wear the 'yellow jersey.' That's going to matter for some people inside the team.

I think cooper has shown this season that he can play with consistency. When he doesn't have a blinder, he plays to the level that any other 10 would... It would therefore be hard to claim that he could be the sole reason we lose a Lions game.

It is also fair to say that the World Cup was not entirely his fault. The whole team performed at a sub-standard level and this was compounded by the fact that Deans didn't choose a back line that suited Quade (How many times does this have to be said?). On top of that There was an obvious, I mean blatantly obvious lack of psychological care for his situation. With a player like Quade (or kurtley or JOC (James O'Connor)) there need to be some understanding that they will require a level of coaching behind plain rugby - that is if you want to get the best out of them.

And that leads me to your final comment. I have no doubt that there was an element of truth to his 'toxic' comments. Hopefully Bill Pulver will be able to solve the issue but there is/ was failing in the culture of the Wallabies last year that had manifested over the past few years with Deans' 'Text players instead of talk to them' coaching style and John O'Neills short-sighted management. Look at players like George Smith, Phil Waugh and Matt Giteau - all brilliant players who had a falling-out with Deans who clearly lacks any man management ability. Giteau is now playing the best footy of his life.

I am not saying Quade should be excused for his comments, they were out of line and childish. However it really shows that the ARU have not been taking a more effective stance on man management and psychological coaching. I hope that Pulver (and a new coach *fingers crossed*) will change this and we'll see a golden age of Wallaby rugby re-emerge.

We won those Welsh Tests with goal kicking, If JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale/Quade were kicking, I doubt we would've. It's a huge factor and only Barnes is good at it. Lealiifano has limited range.

I was also bored out of my mind... The ARU are recording consistent losses and are competing with the likes of NRL and AFL. The last thing they need is boring rugby and Pulver recognizes this. Expect a new coach if Deans plays boring rugby against the Lions (even if he wins the series).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I was also bored out of my mind. The ARU are recording consistent losses and are competing with the likes of NRL and AFL. The last thing they need is boring rugby and Pulver recognizes this. Expect a new coach if Deans plays boring rugby against the Lions (even if he wins the series).

I think this is such an oversimplification.

It was a very close series with strong defence from both sides. Both teams found it difficult to score tries.

This is what most test match rugby is all about.

Defences are better organised and drilled in test rugby and it is not very often that sides are broken down and lots of tries are scored. High scoring tests form both teams tend to be because of teams having defensive lapses.

I think you are kidding if you think a lot of tries are going to be scored in the Lions series, regardless of who plays in the various backline positions.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Who even hates him? I don't think there's a single person on this entire place who does. There are perfectly legitimate criticisms that can be applied to his past performances at Test level. You can blame that on Deans all you like, but he didn't make Cooper throw awful passes, shirk tackles and make some shocking decisions. Cooper's solidified his game at Soup level this year, but there are still going to be question marks over his ability to be that player at the highest level. Discussing, or even daring to mention, that doesn't make someone a hater. I'd love to see Quade at flyhalf against the Lions, but I can entirely understand why Deans has reservations.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
I think this is such an oversimplification.

It was a very close series with strong defence from both sides. Both teams found it difficult to score tries.

This is what most test match rugby is all about.

Defences are better organised and drilled in test rugby and it is not very often that sides are broken down and lots of tries are scored. High scoring tests form both teams tend to be because of teams having defensive lapses.

I think you are kidding if you think a lot of tries are going to be scored in the Lions series, regardless of who plays in the various backline positions.

So the solution is to fight fire with fire? What is the solution if we don't take risks with an open attacking game plan? The Lions will blow us off the park with kicking and their centres...
 
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