Wallabies Watch

[Dumbledore]

There's still ages. If JOC (James O'Connor) is even half fit he'll play. One of the very most important players we have.

 

[lewisr]

Even in the 10 jumper? No doubt he is one of the most important. However I still think he's a ball runner, not a distributor.

 

[Bernie_Larkham]

Well not everyone, people still want him back.

Like they want back the coach and majority of the forward pack and genia who was particularly shithouse v nz.

Cooper is the best 10 and has proved himself at test level. Yes had shockers no question. Also had a full knee reconstruction and now is playing with more control tab ever before and his overall game has improved. As it should for a young 10.

Campo won us the World Cup after losing the BL series by the way (yes very general comment but in the nature of is conversation...)

 

[qwerty51]

He has not proved himself at Test level at all.

 

[lewisr]

Like they want back the coach and majority of the forward pack and genia who was particularly shithouse v nz.

Cooper is the best 10 and has proved himself at test level. Yes had shockers no question. Also had a full knee reconstruction and now is playing with more control tab ever before and his overall game has improved. As it should for a young 10.

Campo won us the World Cup after losing the BL series by the way (yes very general comment but in the nature of is conversation.)

Is anyone else thinking that he would combine brilliantly with Folau as well? Assuming you play two centres who are willing to distribute and assist Cooper (COUGH not McCabe), the Wallaby back line has serious potential. It will require the development of a centre combination though... Which we don't have.

 

[lewisr]

He has not proved himself at Test level at all.

Does that matter? You have a number of uncapped players in your team (To'omua, Leali, Folau). Regardless of whether he has proved himself, his recent form and clear development as a person suffices for another shot in a Wallaby jersey. I also believe it is difficult to prove yourself as an electric flyhalf with centres like Horne and Mccabe. If you want to play a boring 'hit it up' back line, choose barnes.

 

[Bernie_Larkham]

He has not proved himself at Test level at all.

You've been proven to be incorrect. He has been repeatedly good for aus with some shockers thrown in.

You can't admit positive, your posts around cooper are a joke,

 

[oztimmay]

Even in the 10 jumper? No doubt he is one of the most important. However I still think he's a ball runner, not a distributor.

Yes, he is. Quade might bring an element of x-factor but his unpredictability against a well-drilled BIL back line will see him get smashed. They'll have studied him for a while and they will know how to read his plays. Anyway I think they'll probably look to move the 10 and 15 during different phases, so you could pick a running 15 like KB (Kurtley Beale).

JOC (James O'Connor) got a decent knock but like any aspiring wallaby they'll play through injury to get a crack at probably a once in a lifetime event. I think he's proven himself to be a solid 10 at international level and will do well there against the BIL.

 

[qwerty51]

Does that matter? You have a number of uncapped players in your team (To'omua, Leali, Folau). Regardless of whether he has proved himself, his recent form and clear development as a person suffices for another shot in a Wallaby jersey. I also believe it is difficult to prove yourself as an electric flyhalf with centres like Horne and Mccabe. If you want to play a boring 'hit it up' back line, choose barnes.

Just to clear up, that wasn't my Wallabies side, that is my form Super rugby side.

 

[Dumbledore]

Even in the 10 jumper? No doubt he is one of the most important. However I still think he's a ball runner, not a distributor.

Yes. Like it or not there are questions over Cooper's mental fragility in big games. The Lions are three big games in a row. If Deans is going to pick two, Lilo and Folau, or even three, the first two plus Mogg, debutants - I think he's going to pick a safer flyhalf. Cooper is the highest reward pick, but he's also the highest risk - despite what every single Reds poster since the dawn of time will tell us. JOC (James O'Connor) is a high reward, low risk player. If he's fit to play, I won't be even a little bit surprised that he's named at 10.

 

[Pfitzy]

Lilo and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Fixed

 

[cyclopath]

Pfitzy yep. Both can tackle, both can break them and Leali'ifano is very skilled as a distributor. If we want plain old tackle machines, Horne, Fainga'a, McCabe etc can and will do that. But we really want more.

 

[Bernie_Larkham]

Yes, he is. Quade might bring an element of x-factor but his unpredictability against a well-drilled BIL back line will see him get smashed. They'll have studied him for a while and they will know how to read his plays. Anyway I think they'll probably look to move the 10 and 15 during different phases, so you could pick a running 15 like KB (Kurtley Beale).

JOC (James O'Connor) got a decent knock but like any aspiring wallaby they'll play through injury to get a crack at probably a once in a lifetime event. I think he's proven himself to be a solid 10 at international level and will do well there against the BIL.

How well drilled will the Lions be exactly? I'd sat not very considering the Test side will have only a couple of games together.

The thing with JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 is you don't need to even see his games, you'll figure out in a minute his distribution and alignment are rubbish and that he can't organise a team. He will be only a threat if he runs. And from 10 that ain't a smart option...

 

[USARugger]

How well drilled will the Lions be exactly? I'd sat not very considering the Test side will have only a couple of games together.

The thing with JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 is you don't need to even see his games, you'll figure out in a minute his distribution and alignment are rubbish and that he can't organise a team. He will be only a threat if he runs. And from 10 that ain't a smart option.

Surely their back line will only be drilled to stop Cooper running from 10, they will collapse in a heap if JOC (James O'Connor) tries it!!

This thread is getting a little ridiculous.

 

[lewisr]

Yes, he is. Quade might bring an element of x-factor but his unpredictability against a well-drilled BIL back line will see him get smashed. They'll have studied him for a while and they will know how to read his plays. Anyway I think they'll probably look to move the 10 and 15 during different phases, so you could pick a running 15 like KB (Kurtley Beale).

JOC (James O'Connor) got a decent knock but like any aspiring wallaby they'll play through injury to get a crack at probably a once in a lifetime event. I think he's proven himself to be a solid 10 at international level and will do well there against the BIL.

Yes. Like it or not there are questions over Cooper's mental fragility in big games. The Lions are three big games in a row. If Deans is going to pick two, Lilo and Folau, or even three, the first two plus Mogg, debutants - I think he's going to pick a safer flyhalf. Cooper is the highest reward pick, but he's also the highest risk - despite what every single Reds poster since the dawn of time will tell us. JOC (James O'Connor) is a high reward, low risk player. If he's fit to play, I won't be even a little bit surprised that he's named at 10.​

​

I still cannot buy into this theory that teams can read his plays. He is one of, if not the most, unpredictable 10 in world rugby and this is both his greatest strength and greatest weakness. Quade has had shockers for the sole reason that he plays a high risk, high return style of rugby and this requires players around him that understand the concept of support and an 'always ready' mentality. I don't know how many times it has already been said, but when you play him with an appropriate backline (ala bronze world cup with berrick at 12) you really begin to see what he is capable of. You cannot expect him to just pass it to Pat McCabe or a foward for every bloody phase of the game.

But regardless of this, he has shown that he can develop as a player to suit a less risky style of game. You can see it this year. Less of the willy nilly throwing of the ball and more traditional flyhalf stuff and yet he still includes the electric attacking ability that win rugby matches. Only this time he is making more appropriate and thought out decisions as to when he includes it.

O'Connor is good, I agree. But as a flyhalf he simply is not as fluid (particularly passing to the left.)

Yeh, I'm a Quade supporter. But I believe its for the right reasons. He continues to show form and combination with Genia and all his outside backs with a CLEAR development of maturity and social awareness. His ability to take the high ball has improved out of sight along with defensive ability - and yet the neighsayers continue to come up with ways to criticize him.

After all, why do you think the Kiwis hate him so much? They're laughing at the fact we discard our best players. You have to build up players like Quade, not tear them down at every tiny mistake...

 

[Braveheart81]

With Tapuai's drop in form I think Horne could be a smokey for the squad. I think Lealiifano and McCabe will be picked but if Tapuai struggles to make it back into the Reds starting side, Horne could go past him. The defensive combination of Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been supreme. Horne's crash ball running has also been excellent. He made some very decisive runs in the second half tonight. I still want to see Lilo and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the centre pairing against the Lions.

Dennis' form has improved dramatically. I think he's still behind Higgers and Mowen but if MMM doesn't get himself fit, Dennis would be the one to replace him. As far as a 6 who can also play 4, he's the next best option after MMM. My starting backrow is still Higgers at 6 and Palu at 8.

I still think Barnes and Beale will make the 31 man squad (Beale dependent on not having any more fuckups before the final squad is selected and Barnes dependent on staying healthy). Both could easily figure in the matchday 23s. At this point both of them are likely to be held back until the final 6 players. The only way I see that changing is if Beale comes back next weekend and has an absolute blinder (not of the alcohol variety).

 

[USARugger]

I don't know how many times it has already been said, but when you play him with an appropriate backline (ala bronze world cup with berrick at 12) you really begin to see what he is capable of. You cannot expect him to just pass it to Pat McCabe or a foward for every bloody phase of the game.

Let's not forget how shit absolutely any 10 would have looked in some of those tests last year where he would be looking left and right and have literally no support runners on either side of him as he was taking the ball to the line. That's literally not even rugby.

Do not want Barnes to make the squad after the pointless kicking today. Why can't he just play like the RWC bronze test every match?

 

[qwerty51]

Pointless kicking? They were up against a brick wall, running the ball was going nowhere. Barnes played well when he came on and showed he's still the best goal kicker (Mike Harris excluded) in Australia. That's a big factor in a Lions series. Goal kicking.

 

[Dai bando]

How well drilled will the Lions be exactly? I'd sat not very considering the Test side will have only a couple of games together.
spot on this is the crux, how will the lions jell, if they do expect a very hard time at the office.
The thing with JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 is you don't need to even see his games, you'll figure out in a minute his distribution and alignment are rubbish and that he can't organise a team. He will be only a threat if he runs. And from 10 that ain't a smart option.

 

[lewisr]

Pointless kicking? They were up against a brick wall, running the ball was going nowhere. Barnes played well when he came on and showed he's still the best goal kicker (Mike Harris excluded) in Australia. That's a big factor in a Lions series. Goal kicking.

Barnes is a great player and a great bloke but he's past his time. A massive injury liability and I just don't think he's up to test level... At this stage there are quite a few players who deserve a spot ahead of him.

With Tapuai's drop in form I think Horne could be a smokey for the squad

Please no Horne... Just no. If we want to win this series we need attacking brilliance, not crash ball stuff. Higgers can play the crash ball