Wallabies vs England, Perth

[Ash]

He was clobbered on tuesday

Yes, Slipper was. All three of them were, and although Slipper and Weeks have a few initially stable scrums, they were soon found out. I think Deans believe that Weeks and Slipper were hammered because Weeks was moved to LH, a position he does not play. Why Weeks was put at LH and Slipper kept at TH is beyond me, as Slipper would've been the one that (I think, anyway) had more experience at LH. But this is the reason that I am guessing Deans blames the Tuesday night hammering the least on Slipper. I really really hope that Noriega has had his say, because I assume Noriega knows what he is doing. Either way, Slipper is too young, too inexperienced and not ready at all.

That being said, if you were Deans, who would've you chosen at LH and on the bench for this game? Knowing Deans would not go outside his extended squad, and the failure of Weeks at LH (which may have been an experiment to see if he could the bench this weekend, who knows), I guess it's not that amazing after all. Personally, I would've been much more comfortable to see Fairbrother there, or even Dunning. If you just wanted a prop who could play both sides and didn't give a stuff about making it around the field, then even the more experienced Palmer would've been worth a shot. Slipper smacks of a squad development player getting a call up due to being the last man who they think could do the job. Not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're talking about a key position like prop.

BTW, whomever says that Slipper was beaten and driven backwards in the S14 at scrum time is wrong. As mentioned, they are surely confusing him with Jack Kennedy, who I hope does not get near the field again until he improves massively. It can be done - Ma'afu did it, so maybe there's hope for Kennedy yet - but I doubt it. (End digression.) When Slipper was on the field during the few games he played, he held up his side of the scrum - and that was at TH, I believe. Slipper only got selected for the Reds because Kennedy failed miserably.

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm not on the Robbie Deans bandwagon - never have been - but he's here for the duration (RWC). Let's not see the sky falling and think the world will end if this back isn't picked and this other one is.

Our backs will look good, whatever their names are, if the forwards play with more mongrel and involve themselves in such un-Australian things as counter-rucking. That is the key and the future for Oz rugby. Sure, the prop tango is a bit odd but let's see how it goes. Apart from not bringing in Baxter and maybe the likes of Greg Holmes into the squad, I have no great criticism.

There is also a bit of state bias coming into the conversation (not you Ash); you can smell it and it stinks, and it comes from the first people who will protest that they don't care where Oz players come from. To be fair, they hardly know they are doing it.

 

[RedsHappy]

We all think Deans was given the job of putting forward the strongest Wallabies team possible for the WC. Sadly everything else along the way is just a check point or a marker of performance.

To move forward you sometimes need to go backwards first. Deans would know that the team needs a stronger showing this year to build confidence within the squad. I hope it happens but I won't be hanging him out to dry if it doesn't.

This is really worth debating. 'It's all about the WC' vs 'It's all about consistent, exciting wins now'. A number of the posts above say or imply that going all out in selection terms for a big win on Saturday is actually less important than a developmental process for the benefit of exciting young and new players (again probably implying the WC-is-all thesis) Interesting contention: an Aus WC victory will solve rugby's strategic (and serious) problems in the Australian sports marketplace and consistent, exciting victories now matter somewhat less. All I can say is: I disagree. (And what a high risk roll-of-the-dice that WC-is-all strategy is, btw.)

A related and v interesting dimension for discussion and analysis in this context is this: to what extent has every RWC winner preceded that victory with an excellent W-L ratio against the top rugby nations in the preceding, say, 18 months? In other words, for increasing a team's real chances to win at a RWC, does stringing together a solid run of consistent victories vs the best and well before the RWC, really matter, or, in relative terms, not?

 

[ACT Crusader]

Blue you are right. I was thinking that the other day. This year we had Hynes at the Reds, Beale at the Tahs, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at the Brums and JOC (James O'Connor) at the Force. All manufactured fullbacks I guess you could say.

Bring back Gerrard, IMO the only real FB OZ have had since Latham left....

Agree also with Blue's earlier post that IMO the cupboard is simply bare in a few positions currently that whether it is Knuckles, Rod or Deanes in the hot seat right now wouldn't matter too much.

 

[RedsHappy]

...Our backs will look good, whatever their names are, if the forwards play with more mongrel and involve themselves in such un-Australian things as counter-rucking. That is the key and the future for Oz rugby. ....

You are so, so right! And that is _precisely_ where the ARU and the elite coaching establishment have not learnt the awful lessons of Marseilles 2007 (and prior) and set about radically improving our forwards' _real_ depth and technical skill levels (plus speed-to-ball fitness and agility, etc..). IMO, we are today still paying a large price for that complacency and poor analysis as to why we consistently lose so many big games, especially against the two best rugby nations today. Was it not painfully obvious how much better the England A team did on Tuesday at the breakdown, getting to, fighting over it, etc. Then we had the scrum debacle on top (which remarkably few people seem to think was too important in the overall scheme). Then we have the scrum and breakdown stats vs Fiji last Saturday.

An earlier poster asked 'what more could Deans have done since 2008'. Well, one big, smart action would have been to insist the ARU immediately invested in a kind of elite forwards training academy that both on season and off bought some of the world's finest forwards coaches and/or technical consultants to Australia on 3 year contracts to deal with this obvious national deficiency that was/is killing our W-L ratio and, just as bad, regularly wasting the huge talent our country has almost always had in backs. (I also believe that letting Foley go to the Tahs after the 2008 season was a related, big mistake that sits in the same complacency zone.)

 

[matty_k]

From the Twitterverse

BREAKING NEWS: Matt Giteau out for match against England! More information coming soon

 

[RugbyReg]

barnes to start I guess? Super Cooper to kick! Chambers on the bench? Or Fainga'a?

 

[RugbyReg]

The Qantas Wallabies have been forced to make a late change to their starting line-up for Saturday night’s Bundaberg Red Rugby Series Test match against England at Subiaco Oval in Perth. Inside centre Matt Giteau has failed to overcome a hip injury and has been ruled out of the side. Berrick Barnes, who co-captained the Australian Barbarians during the Tour match against England midweek, comes into the starting line-up in Giteau’s place, slotting in outside of flyhalf Quade Cooper. Peter Hynes has taken Barnes position on the Australian bench.

The Qantas Wallabies will have their final training run before the game this morning.

 

[fatprop]

So if Barnes is Wounded, Beale to 12 - Great

 

[rsea]

I'd prefer fanga at 12. Someone tell Barnes no grubbers!

 

[Newb]

hynes is a good pick. as someone else said, there is already plenty of center cover so chambers or Fainga'a isn't required.

not surprised gits is out with the rag dolling he took against fiji.

 

[RugbyReg]

So if Barnes is Wounded, Beale to 12 - Great

no Beale to 15 and JOC (James O'Connor) to 12

 

[ACT Crusader]

So if Barnes is Wounded, Beale to 12 - Great

Maybe Rabbit to 12 and Beale to FB?

 

[Brumby Jack]

Lucky our match program can be changed unlike the other one that is probably at the printers as we speak....

 

[DPK]

My only problem with Daley is that he doesn't look like a prop.

 

[RugbyReg]

Lucky our match program can be changed unlike the other one that is probably at the printers as we speak....

are you telling me to change my match program? Pffft. Consider it done!

 

[RedsHappy]

I'd prefer fanga at 12. Someone tell Barnes no grubbers!

I suppose RD worried that with no Giteau, if Cooper goes down, there's limited kicking or playmaker cover?...whatever, as RD has gone all-out with the 'development and youth' strategy for this Test, for me it's debatable to play the dubious risk-reward calculus of a Barnes whose last 5 months have been hardly stellar, when say fanger or Chambers have worked so closely with Cooper to good effect, and whom have real upside gain potential given their recent playing records...oh well, come 9:45pm on Saturday we'll all know. I guess the other interesting point buried in this is that Giteau has not had a brilliant 2010 either so far...will he be hugely missed?

 

[RugbyReg]

I am happy with Barnes, assuming our goal kicking is ok.

I reckon he'll play the game we need v England, plus he started to get his running shoes on for the Tahs towards season's end. And he was running straight. Quade likes the cut out anyway. BB's kicking game might actually be pretty key. Particularly to close out a game.

 

[Lee Grant]

His form goal kicking will be missed.

If we are not going to talk about forwards doing their jobs properly: the combination of 10. Cooper and 12. Barnes was not good last year for the Reds but I suppose that there may be a small dividend with Barnes at 12 as he and 13 Horne looked good together at the end of the season - that's when Barnes wasn't kicking the ball back to opponents.

I'm not too worried - not half as much as worrying about the scrums or the physical contests - or one hopes that they are physical.

 

[Moses]

Wallabies to win with a last minute BB drop goal. You heard it hear first...

JOC (James O'Connor) kicked well in the baabaa's game, reckon he'll get the nod?