Wallabies vs England, Perth

[Reddy!]

JOC (James O'Connor) can kick, no dramas there.

 

[Reddy!]

There is also a bit of state bias coming into the conversation (not you Ash); you can smell it and it stinks, and it comes from the first people who will protest that they don't care where Oz players come from. To be fair, they hardly know they are doing it.

To be frank, so what? Not everyone wants to be a fence sitter like you Lee.

Criticism about Robbie Deans is completely valid - the World Cup is still a year away or more, therefore his performance up to now is the only way to judge him; you cannot judge someone on the hope that they will do the job in a years time, and subsequently excuse the facts you know.

 

[DPK]

To be frank, so what? Not everyone wants to be a fence sitter like you Lee.

Criticism about Robbie Deans is completely valid - the World Cup is still a year away or more, therefore his performance up to now is the only way to judge him; you cannot judge someone on the hope that they will do the job in a years time, and subsequently excuse the facts you know.

Ah, theres the old, extremist Reddy! I've missed. Welcome back.

 

[RedsHappy]

....Criticism about Robbie Deans is completely valid - the World Cup is still a year away or more, therefore his performance up to now is the only way to judge him; you cannot judge someone on the hope that they will do the job in a years time, and subsequently excuse the facts you know.....

Perfect. The other dreamy implied fallacy at work in this dangerous 'it's all about the RWC' thesis is that somehow the grand victory there will massively impact the following 4 years' gate receipts and media viewership for Aus rugby and fix its problems in a business and sports market share sense. To your excellent point, we will only fix these quite serious problems for the game we all love when three things happen, hopefully at roughly the same time: the Wallabies W-L ratio of big games goes way up, we win a S15 Final somehow, and at least 3 out of the 5 local S15 teams plays exciting, expansive, aggressive, entertaining rugby for the majority of their S15 games. That means: coaching has to be really outstanding at Wallaby and S15 levels, as does consistently good selection and deep player development. Based on say mid-2009 to mid-2010, you'd give our overall Aus game on these criteria about 6.5 out of 10.

 

[Reddy!]

I'm not trying to have a go at Lee Grant, but I'm just so jealous of his consistantly unbias, well thought out posts, filled with common sense.

How does he do it!? Grrr...anyway time to take my medication that Noddy put me on.

 

[DPK]

Nigel Owens (Wales) will be the referee.

And here's the silverware on offer:
http://www.rugby.com.au/aru/photo.asp?id=1171&section=9625

 

[daz]

Well yes fair point again Daz, but did all that 'meddling' (Deans' words) and shuffling and pulling JO'C and kind of humiliating Weeks with swapping him to wrong prop position etc, really produce anything useful? Where perhaps we differ Daz is that I think in these scenarios Aus should fight to win 100% of the time, and win really well if possible, every 'B' game that puts real psychological pressure on the immediately facing 'A' side, namely England A (England actually, you know what I mean) in this case.

I agree to some extent with this. Of course I wanted to see the Poms lose, but I have to say that pulling JOC (James O'Connor) at the 50-60 minute mark would have happened under any half decent coach. This was not a test match. JOC (James O'Connor) had shown the coach enough to please him, and more importantly, he came off injury free with a good run under his belt. JOC (James O'Connor) is now full of confidence heading into a test match which is where we really need him to fire.

Don't forget, very few of the Pom B team were fighting for test spots. I seriously doubt that a B team mid-week loss to another B team would cause the Test squad to lose sleep.

I honestly don't know what to make of RD. All I do know is that he is a multiple S14 title winner and the Wallaby coach, and I am an infrequent poster on a rugby website and more likely to be found in the crowd with a beer, rather than chasing the ball around.

And one final point: The Pom supporters are really good at negativity. Go check out the BBC sport forums if you want to see rabid back-stabbing of the national team and the coach. We are better than that, aren't we?

 

[Brumby Jack]

JOC (James O'Connor) can kick

And will be doing so.

 

[RedsHappy]

The Poms are tucking into Johnson's flesh as his W-L ratio and results in the big games have been poor since taking over England, and the England RU spend _a fortune_ on the so-called elite player group and all that goes with it (see the Growden SMH online piece today on the size of the England entourage in Perth). [Btw, had we handsomely won the BaaBaas game, I can assure you the howls from the travelling English rugby media would have been ferocious and this would have not hurt the lead up to the psychology-end of our game on Saturday.] Contrast that in fairness with the generally supportive forum views re Andy Flowers the relatively new England cricket coach who is clearly propelling the England top team forward quite well.

I respect the point you are making re 'rabid back stabbing' etc, but I cannot retreat from my concerns and criticisms over the relatively mediocre and inconsistent performance of the Wallabies over too many recent years now. In fact, I think our elite rugby teams and coaches (Wallabies and S14) get off far too easily in the recent past, when their performances over time do not warrant the indulgence they tend to get from large tracts of the Australian rugby media and their local RUs. Being too 'patriotic' when performances don't really warrant it can be just as bad as excessive negativity.

Nonetheless, please trust that come Saturday night, my son will in front of the TV with Wallabies jersey on, and we shall both be shouting, preying, wishing and hoping for the boys in G&G!

 

[Burke's Boot]

It beggars belief that an experienced prop that can do two sides like Baxter or Dunning isn't on the bench to clean up any potential mess. Lets hope Noriega has already picked up some technique problems with Daley and fixed them.

 

[rsea]

I suppose RD worried that with no Giteau, if Cooper goes down, there's limited kicking or playmaker cover?...whatever, as RD has gone all-out with the 'development and youth' strategy for this Test, for me it's debatable to play the dubious risk-reward calculus of a Barnes whose last 5 months have been hardly stellar, when say fanger or Chambers have worked so closely with Cooper to good effect, and whom have real upside gain potential given their recent playing records...oh well, come 9:45pm on Saturday we'll all know. I guess the other interesting point buried in this is that Giteau has not had a brilliant 2010 either so far...will he be hugely missed?

I just like that fanga runs hard and straight like Horne and has a great offloading ability. Cooper / Fanga / Horne would be very, very interesting + I don't think we need dual play makers with cooper on the field

 

[RedsHappy]

I just like that fanga runs hard and straight like Horne and has a great offloading ability. Cooper / Fanga / Horne would be very, very interesting + I don't think we need dual play makers with cooper on the field

I think that's an excellent point/observation rsea. C+F+H could be brilliant! And there's no doubt that, as other astute posters have noted, 2009's pairing of C + Barnes was not compelling. I would also imagine that there's a bit of negative - or ambivalent - emotion between these two given all recent events that may risk a less than optimal pairing scenario on Saturday night.

Having said the above, you and I had better be careful here as Lee Grant is on the lookout for 'state bias' ;-).

 

[Groucho]

I think that's an excellent point/observation rsea. C+F+H could be brilliant! And there's no doubt that, as other astute posters have noted, 2009's pairing of C + Barnes was not compelling. I would also imagine that there's a bit of negative - or ambivalent - emotion between these two given all recent events that may risk a less than optimal pairing scenario on Saturday night.

Having said the above, you and I had better be careful here as Lee Grant is on the lookout for 'state bias' ;-).

I don't think the Reds players in the Wallabies will harbour the same levels of bitterness towards Barnes as Reds fans do. Reds fans are the new Brumbies fans.

 

[matty_k]

no Beale to 15 and JOC (James O'Connor) to 12

Maybe Rabbit to 12 and Beale to FB?

Jinx

 

[rsea]

Having said the above, you and I had better be careful here as Lee Grant is on the lookout for 'state bias' ;-).

but I'm a tahs supporter! (with a soft spot for the Reds)
I agree re introducing more youth to the side though. Perhaps we'll see something like this combo post WC when Giteau goes off to fatten his cheque book

 

[RedsHappy]

I don't think the Reds players in the Wallabies will harbour the same levels of bitterness towards Barnes as Reds fans do. Reds fans are the new Brumbies fans.

Actually Groucho, in my experience up here in Reds' land, any bitterness has largely dissipated as (a) many of us sympathised with Barnes that the QRU as at 2009 had become and been for many years disastrously mismanaged and directed and (b) Genia + Copper + McKenzie etc went off like the proverbial rocket and the loss of Barnes suddenly seemed a perverse kind of gain, with no unkindness intended to Barnes.

 

[RedsHappy]

but I'm a tahs supporter! (with a soft spot for the Reds)

Sorry, I missed the red flower in you signature line! (But you have confessed to a 'soft spot' so I was partly on the right track )

 

[David]

Actually Groucho, in my experience up here in Reds' land, any bitterness has largely dissipated as (a) many of us sympathised with Barnes that the QRU as at 2009 had become and been for many years disastrously mismanaged and directed and (b) Genia + Copper + McKenzie etc went off like the proverbial rocket and the loss of Barnes suddenly seemed a perverse kind of gain, with no unkindness intended to Barnes.

The reds players I've spoken to have no bad feelings about barnes, I believe they're all still good mates and can sympathise with the reasons for Barnes leaving. Also I spoke to Cooper late last year before barnes left and he told me he really wanted to play 10 by himself to show everyone how he can control the game. And boy did he show everyone.

 

[RedsHappy]

T..... Also I spoke to Cooper late last year before barnes left and he told me he really wanted to play 10 by himself to show everyone how he can control the game. And boy did he show everyone.

Perhaps despite my earlier comments, given your v interesting account above, Cooper will on Saturday feel he owes Barnesy some fabulous passes and back up and lots of other favours!

 

[ACT Crusader]

I think that's an excellent point/observation rsea. C+F+H could be brilliant! And there's no doubt that, as other astute posters have noted, 2009's pairing of C + Barnes was not compelling. I would also imagine that there's a bit of negative - or ambivalent - emotion between these two given all recent events that may risk a less than optimal pairing scenario on Saturday night.

Having said the above, you and I had better be careful here as Lee Grant is on the lookout for 'state bias' ;-).

Given the ages of those 3, that could very well be the 10/12/13 trio come WC 2015