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Wallabies v Springboks, Sat 10th August 2.30pm AEST @ Suncorp,

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Maybe they could convert Max Jorgensen to a 10, his got some of the skills the others don't, being pace and is a better tackler. I think his paths pretty blocked at 15 or wing and his not a massive player. Although to be honest not watched enough of him to really know if he'd be up for it.

I think he'll be the Wallabies starting 15 within a year or so. I don't think his path is blocked there at all.

I know he's only played a couple professional matches, but as far as I'm concerned any 10 is a placeholder until Jack Bowen breaks through. I think he's a special player.

His goal kicking has to improve a lot. He misses way too many easy ones and is falling into the same area as Carter Gordon where he's losing the job so isn't getting the matchday experience to improve it (he's not the goal kicker for Easts in the Shute Shield currently. The winger, Cooper Whiteside who is a great goal kicker took the job).
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think he'll (Jorgensen) be the Wallabies starting 15 within a year or so. I don't think his path is blocked there at all.

I don't think so, I reckon he has improve his kick return a lot, isn't big enough threat and got tackled too easily this Super Rugby season. Too often he didn't get through that first tackle or even provide some momentum

But great pace, defensive positional play, good pass & kick length
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I know it won’t happen - but maybe we should just stop overhyping all these young guys. Jorgenson has done enough to impress successive Wallabies coaches so that is something, but he is basically having trouble staying on the field at the moment. As for Bowen - let’s at least wait until he’s starting regularly at super level before we anoint him the next great.

One thing Australian rugby has been great at is taking young talent and putting it through the wringer and fucking up their development. I think it’ll be a good thing when we can stop rushing these guys into test squads prematurely.
 

The Phoenix

Ward Prentice (10)
What's the common denominator with these players being hyped up and then chosen before they are ready - that's right, they are mostly Waratahs. One good game for the Tahs and you're the next big thing. Three good games and you're actually in the Wallabies squad. With 90 percent of rugby media based in Sydney and RA based there, what else can we expect?
 

Tomthumb

Dick Tooth (41)
I know it won’t happen - but maybe we should just stop overhyping all these young guys. Jorgenson has done enough to impress successive Wallabies coaches so that is something, but he is basically having trouble staying on the field at the moment. As for Bowen - let’s at least wait until he’s starting regularly at super level before we anoint him the next great.

One thing Australian rugby has been great at is taking young talent and putting it through the wringer and fucking up their development. I think it’ll be a good thing when we can stop rushing these guys into test squads prematurely.
I don't think they have been rushed in, it's not as if they are being picked over much better players. The age of guys going overseas has dropped therefore we are relying on younger players in the Wallabies setup
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I don't think so, I reckon he has improve his kick return a lot, isn't big enough threat and got tackled too easily this Super Rugby season. Too often he didn't get through that first tackle or even provide some momentum

But great pace, defensive positional play, good pass & kick length
His defensive positioning is fine but his defence not so much. Regularly in a position to make a covering tackle and regularly failing to.
 

Strewthcobber

Steve Williams (59)
What's the common denominator with these players being hyped up and then chosen before they are ready - that's right, they are mostly Waratahs. One good game for the Tahs and you're the next big thing. Three good games and you're actually in the Wallabies squad. With 90 percent of rugby media based in Sydney and RA based there, what else can we expect?
We could expect knowledgeable posters like yourself to provide alternative options from other teams to counter the Waratah hype?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
What's the common denominator with these players being hyped up and then chosen before they are ready - that's right, they are mostly Waratahs. One good game for the Tahs and you're the next big thing. Three good games and you're actually in the Wallabies squad. With 90 percent of rugby media based in Sydney and RA based there, what else can we expect?

[citation needed]

Of the last 32 players to debut for the Wallabies (everyone since 2022), only 6 have played for the Waratahs at the time of selection (i.e. I included Ben Donaldson).
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I don't think they have been rushed in, it's not as if they are being picked over much better players. The age of guys going overseas has dropped therefore we are relying on younger players in the Wallabies setup
I agree that some of this has been by necessity, and feel like Rennie was absolutely impacted by this. But doesn’t mean they aren’t being rushed. They absolutely are and it has happened for some time.

I disagree it is just Waratahs and I’d be lying if I didn’t admit I’ve been guilty of it too. I also think there are two different issues - us over hyping players on here which is fine so long as we don’t turn on them (as happened with Ned Hanigan) and the Wallabies coaches actually selecting them.

Off the top of my head sone examples of guys who I think would have benefitted from being held back are Maddocks (who has come out publicly and stated that he was promoted too quickly), Lolesio, Hanigan, Lonergan, Bell, Petaia, Swain and I have misgivings about Lynagh’s current inclusion.

It doesn’t mean you can’t make a good case for their selection - I think Lolesio was basically the last man standing when thrown into test rugby - but I don’t think their initial selection has helped their longer term development.

I am hoping we are moving past that - but I personally hope Jorgenson, Lynagh and Bell are managed very carefully in the next 18 months.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Here's the team apparently...

1. Kailea
2. Faessler
3. Ala'alatoa
4. Salakaia-Loto
5. Frost
6. Valetini
7. Tizzano
8. Wilson
9. Gordon
10. Lolesio
11. Daugunu
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. Kellaway
15. Wright

16. Nasser 17. Slipper 18. Nonggorr 19. Williams 20. Hooper 21. McDermott 22. Lynagh 23. Pietsch
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Here's the team apparently...

1. Kailea
2. Faessler
3. Ala'alatoa
4. Salakaia-Loto
5. Frost
6. Valetini
7. Tizzano
8. Wilson
9. Gordon
10. Lolesio
11. Daugunu
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. Kellaway
15. Wright

16. Nasser 17. Slipper 18. Nonggorr 19. Williams 20. Hooper 21. McDermott 22. Lynagh 23. Pietsch
that bench is pretty uninspiring..
 

The Phoenix

Ward Prentice (10)
We could expect knowledgeable posters like yourself to provide alternative options from other teams to counter the Waratah hype?
I'm a mad Queensland fan but I don't over-hype our players, for example I think it is too soon for Lynagh -- he needs another Super Rugby season to show consistency and to put some more meat on his bones. If he was true Wallaby material he would have started every game for the Reds at 10 when he was fit, not share the duties with two others. I think he will be our number 10, but don't think it should be this year. Bowen started one game for the Waratahs and is being talked about as a superstar. Jorgensen is injury plagued and was underwhelming when he did play this year but is now being touted as a future 10 of all things. And Angus Bell was hyped too early - he may have been good in loose play but he couldn't hold his side of the scrum up.
I'm not saying these players won't be good - Bell has obviously improved and is now our first choice loosehead when fit -- what I am saying is give them time and select them when they are ready.
And what I'm also saying is players from other states don't generally get this level of hype about them.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I agree that some of this has been by necessity, and feel like Rennie was absolutely impacted by this. But doesn’t mean they aren’t being rushed. They absolutely are and it has happened for some time.

I disagree it is just Waratahs and I’d be lying if I didn’t admit I’ve been guilty of it too. I also think there are two different issues - us over hyping players on here which is fine so long as we don’t turn on them (as happened with Ned Hanigan) and the Wallabies coaches actually selecting them.

Off the top of my head sone examples of guys who I think would have benefitted from being held back are Maddocks (who has come out publicly and stated that he was promoted too quickly), Lolesio, Hanigan, Lonergan, Bell, Petaia, Swain and I have misgivings about Lynagh’s current inclusion.

It doesn’t mean you can’t make a good case for their selection - I think Lolesio was basically the last man standing when thrown into test rugby - but I don’t think their initial selection has helped their longer term development.

I am hoping we are moving past that - but I personally hope Jorgenson, Lynagh and Bell are managed very carefully in the next 18 months.
Just another systemic issue we can't really resolve. If you don't get them in young they leave. Plus, older established players who would ordinarily stand in their way also tend to leave - at least for a while.

We no longer have the luxury of gradually bringing on younger players as they mature and develop.
 

LeCheese

John Thornett (49)
I'm a mad Queensland fan but I don't over-hype our players, for example I think it is too soon for Lynagh -- he needs another Super Rugby season to show consistency and to put some more meat on his bones. If he was true Wallaby material he would have started every game for the Reds at 10 when he was fit, not share the duties with two others. I think he will be our number 10, but don't think it should be this year. Bowen started one game for the Waratahs and is being talked about as a superstar. Jorgensen is injury plagued and was underwhelming when he did play this year but is now being touted as a future 10 of all things. And Angus Bell was hyped too early - he may have been good in loose play but he couldn't hold his side of the scrum up.
I'm not saying these players won't be good - Bell has obviously improved and is now our first choice loosehead when fit -- what I am saying is give them time and select them when they are ready.
And what I'm also saying is players from other states don't generally get this level of hype about them.
Petaia, Tim Ryan, Quade, Lynagh and HMP, even Tupou are just a handful of Qld examples that would fall into your definition of 'overhyped' by media / public commentary at some point early on in their careers.

It's by no means just a Tahs thing.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Just another systemic issue we can't really resolve. If you don't get them in young they leave. Plus, older established players who would ordinarily stand in their way also tend to leave - at least for a while.

We no longer have the luxury of gradually bringing on younger players as they mature and develop.
I think the problem was acute in 2020. I don’t think it’s nearly as bad now.

We do still have a problem with lack of experience by comparison to other teams but the two issues, while related, aren’t the same.
 

Overtime

Herbert Moran (7)
I'm a mad Queensland fan but I don't over-hype our players, for example I think it is too soon for Lynagh -- he needs another Super Rugby season to show consistency and to put some more meat on his bones. If he was true Wallaby material he would have started every game for the Reds at 10 when he was fit, not share the duties with two others. I think he will be our number 10, but don't think it should be this year. Bowen started one game for the Waratahs and is being talked about as a superstar. Jorgensen is injury plagued and was underwhelming when he did play this year but is now being touted as a future 10 of all things. And Angus Bell was hyped too early - he may have been good in loose play but he couldn't hold his side of the scrum up.
I'm not saying these players won't be good - Bell has obviously improved and is now our first choice loosehead when fit -- what I am saying is give them time and select them when they are ready.
And what I'm also saying is players from other states don't generally get this level of hype about them.
Also McReight, McDermott plus Wilson have been hyped in times past. I have never heard Bowen being touted as a super star and please Lynagh at 10, I would prefer Lolesio. And yes, a great idea giving Jorgensen a go at 10 starting at club rugby first, he has pace, vision a good kicking game. None of the other 10's have that quality, particularly pace. Lynagh is about the slowest of the lot, I could chase him down on the paddock. Pace and vision at fly-half who can also defend, that way the opposition will think twice and not assume that the fly-half will always pass it or kick. They need to be able to crack the defence wide open at fly half as well as pass, kick and tackle, Beuden Barret, Richie Mounga style. Give us one of those and a decent forward pack Aussie might move up the rankings a bit but not until then. Fly-half is and has been our biggest problem since Quade and Foley have moved on. In saying that Foley was not great either particularly his kicking game but definitely better than who we currently have to choose from.
 

Tazzmania

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Wallabies team to play South Africa at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane on Saturday 10 August at 2:30pm AEST

1. Isaac Kailea (3 Tests) - Harlequin Junior Rugby Club

2. Matt Faessler (7 Tests) – USQ Saints

3. Allan Ala'alatoa (c) (70 Tests) – West Harbour Juniors

4. Nick Frost (16 Tests) – Hornsby Lions

5. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (32 Tests) – Randwick

6. Rob Valetini (42 Tests) – Harlequin Junior Rugby Club

7. Carlo Tizzano* - University of Western Australia

8. Harry Wilson (13 Tests) – Gunnedah Red Devils

9. Jake Gordon (22 Tests) – Canterbury Juniors

10. Noah Lolesio (20 Tests) – Tuggeranong Vikings

11. Filipo Daugunu (10 Tests) – Wests Bulldogs

12. Hunter Paisami (27 Tests) - Harlequin Junior Rugby Club

13. Len Ikitau (29 Tests) – Tuggeranong Vikings

14. Andrew Kellaway (29 Tests) – Hunters Hill Rugby

15. Tom Wright (28 Tests) – Clovelly Eagles

Substitutes

16. Josh Nasser (2 Tests) - Easts Tigers

17. James Slipper (136 Tests) – Bond Pirates

18. Zane Nonggorr (6 Tests) – Gold Coast Eagles

19. Jeremy Williams (3 Tests) – Wahroonga Tigers

20. Luke Reimer* - Lindfield Junior Rugby Club

21. Tate McDermott (31 Tests) – Flinders Rugby Club

22. Tom Lynagh (1 Test) – University of Queensland

23. Dylan Pietsch (1 Test) – Leeton Phantoms

*denotes uncapped
 
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