Wallabies v Fiji, Canberra

[naza]

Our forwards were just rubbish

You are very generous.

I don't understand how fringe Wallaby forwards like Maafu, Edmonds, Brown & Cowan can play with such a lack of intensity. Each Wallaby game they get could be easily be their last, what is wrong with them ?

I shall from this point refer to the Wallaby forwards as flock, not a pack. The sight of Sharpe and Elsom outseagulling each other is sickening.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Saw this gem on the SMH website:

Deans is also working hard on those who have featured more regularly in the Wallabies strip and require help with their core skills. At the end of yesterday's captain's run at Canberra Stadium, Deans spent more than 10 minutes with the Test halfback Luke Burgess working on his technique, in particular passing the ball directly from the ground.

Robbie, I've got bad news for you mate, it will take a whole lot longer than 10 minutes. In fact I don't think there's enough time between now and the RWC...

 

[Salad Fingers]

My observations of this game:

-shit crowd
-burgess can't pass
-giteau got pole-axed
-sharp was a battering ram
-cooper is a gun
-burgess can't pass
-caucau is a fatty boomsticks
-fijian's can't throw a punch
-digby is a gun
-burgess can't pass
-the fiji #8 is a beast
-vitori buatava sported a ridiculous mo
-burgess can't pass
-in melbourne ch7 didn't air the game till 12am
-i got blind while watching the game
-my spew at the end of the game was quicker than burgess's passing

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

My observations of this game:
-burgess can't pass

This. I mean really, Valentine couldn't have gotten at least 8 minutes off the bench?

 

[Lee Grant]

Far too much talk since the game about which back can't pass etc.

People have given the forwards a bit of stick but that is erroneous because they should have been really hammered.

Perhaps the reason is because of the final score or maybe folks are using the wrong benchmark. The correct benchmark to use when playing against Fiji, is not Fiji; the correct benchmark is: how would that performance have rated had it been produced against a real team - like England, and let's not put the Boks in the assessment or even the All Blacks for the moment.

If the odd Fijian could tip toe through a ruck whilst the Clever Dick Oz forwards were carefully not committing too many forwards to it but standing outside the fringes instead, guess what the Poms will do? No, they won''t be picking their noses. At times the Wallabies looked like the Tahs against the Clan in Invercargill last month.

I looked for some forward in the first half who would at least attempt a bit of counter-rucking. Now and then Pocock would do a bit and Ma'afu showed a bit of interest from time to time but mostly the Wallabies forwards waited.

The Wallabies forwards should be forced to watch a tape of the Clan v Tahs game - but watch only the Highlanders. Why? ... because the Clan forwards tried to drive every Tahs ruck back and for 80 minutes. They attacked in defence as though the Tahs had their ball. Were the Clan forwards All Black greats? Absolutely not - just a pack that were .... a pack.

That's the way for the Wallabies forwards to play - as I said before the game on some thread, and as I will say a year from now. Do that and I may be impressed by the offloads and other skills forwards have.

The best predictions are true when you make them, but I always live in hope that the Oz pack will make me shut up some year.

 

[Langthorne]

Far too much talk since the game about which back can't pass etc.

People have given the forwards a bit of stick but that is erroneous because they should have been really hammered.

Perhaps the reason is because of the final score or maybe folks are using the wrong benchmark. The correct benchmark to use when playing against Fiji, is not Fiji; the correct benchmark is: how would that performance have rated had it been produced against a real team - like England, and let's not put the Boks in the assessment or even the All Blacks for the moment.

If the odd Fijian could tip toe through a ruck whilst the Clever Dick Oz forwards were carefully not committing too many forwards to it but standing outside the fringes instead, guess what the Poms will do? No, they won''t be picking their noses. At times the Wallabies looked like the Tahs against the Clan in Invercargill last month.

I've got to agree with you there Lee, and with Naza too - this was the big opportunity for a few of the fringe players to stake their claims, and for the established guys to stave off the up and coming new faces.

I thought Sharpe had a strong game. Pocock did enough for me too. Elsom did show some aggression, but wasn't intense throughout. Mumm was OK without being outstanding. The front row is a big worry, especially with Alexander now injured too. Edmonds or Fainga'a - both are lightweight, both are miles behind TPN and Moore. Brown is too small to be the Wallaby No 8. Our depth is being sorely tested by these injuries. Let's hope the young guys coming through can show some of that much needed pack mentality.

The English always have a strong tight 5. They will not be worried about what they saw.

The backs went very well after a shaky start. I thought Burgess did OK, especially if you consider his all round game rather than just his passing game. Genia is the better player, but even he serves up the odd bad pass.

I loved the great skills on show. Cooper's passing was pretty crisp. Beale pulled off a couple of neat pickups and passes, but what I liked most is the way he ran hard into the defence when needed. Horne will surely make the 13 jersey his own for some time to come.

The goal kicking of Giteau and Cooper was good to see too.

 

[TheTruth]

You are very generous.

I don't understand how fringe Wallaby forwards like Maafu, Edmonds, Brown & Cowan can play with such a lack of intensity. Each Wallaby game they get could be easily be their last, what is wrong with them ?

I shall from this point refer to the Wallaby forwards as flock, not a pack. The sight of Sharpe and Elsom outseagulling each other is sickening.

naza

dead right, confirm, agree - a player gets a chance to play for Wallabys and then "paces" himself - That is a joke - every player from Gits, Elsom etc should be up and on their game each and every game - have always thought the Rock has been a seagull and gets accolades for some runs out wide while the other poor buggers generally are their earning their money . Is Elsom coachable

 

[DPK]

Good to see that when Giteau was down, Cooper didn't have much trouble taking the conversion. Good to have a decent backup goalkicker.

 

[Reddy!]

I'll give the Wallabies one more chance, or two, but if they keep playing this dire rugby like they have for the past 18months I'm going back to watching re-runs of the Reds 2010 season.

 

[biggsy]

I'll give the Wallabies one more chance, or two, but if they keep playing this dire rugby like they have for the past 18months I'm going back to watching re-runs of the Reds 2010 season.

Once Burgess in gone,the game will open up... Genia will speed things up and fat Poms wont no what to do... Copper and Git's need quick for there play making skill IMO

 

[en_force_er]

As a positive I thought Brown played well. Perhaps the fact he was desperate not to give up penalties resulted in him being a bit tentative at times but I believe if he can build on last night he can be a stop-gap solution for Palu.

In summary, Brown's defense and discipline were good.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Bits of news from this morning -
The Fiji Fullback Taniela Rawaqa has received 1 week for his shoulder charge and centre Saula Radidi has got 2 weeks for his dangerous tackle just before half time that had Rocky discussing it with the ref just on half time.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very unlikely for the England game. Ben Alexander is out for at least 4-6 weeks and coach Robbie Deans is not going to going to bring any replacements in from outside the squad that has been assembled. He believes those that are there were picked on merit after strong Super 14 appearances and deserve to show what they can do.

 

[en_force_er]

Bits of news from this morning -
The Fiji Fullback Taniela Rawaqa has received 1 week for his shoulder charge and centre Saula Radidi has got 2 weeks for his dangerous tackle just before half time that had Rocky discussing it with the ref just on half time.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very unlikely for the England game. Ben Alexander is out for at least 4-6 weeks and coach Robbie Deans is not going to going to bring any replacements in from outside the squad that has been assembled. He believes those that are there were picked on merit after strong Super 14 appearances and deserve to show what they can do.

Surely he will at least have to add to the Aussie Barbarians squad, even if it's just another Prop.

 

[cyclopath]

Once Burgess in gone,the game will open up... Genia will speed things up and fat Poms wont no what to do... Copper and Git's need quick for there play making skill IMO

Well, it's a nice theory. Of course it is predicated on the assumption that our forwards will win some good ball, and on last night's performance I wouldn't put my hard earned on it.

 

[naza]

Fine, let's talk about the backs.

I notice there are quite a few votes in the MOTM thread for Horne. I rate the guy, think he's class and his touches always have quality about them. But like Richard Brown, he's too light at this level and I thought he was clearly exposed in that department last night. Unless we want to put him at 12 and move a Ioane/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) into 13, this guy needs to hit the weights. We need one of our centres to break tackles and crash it up and it has to be the 13 if we're going with the 2nd 5/8th types (Giteau/Barnes/O'Connor).

Kurtley at fullback. I just have no confidence in the guy. I think he'll be seriously targeted at the back and I'm skeptical that he'll be up to it. Hard to explain. I like what he brings to fullback in attack - I thought one of the positives against Fiji was that we showed a bit of spark in counter attack.

Giteau still hasn't changed. He murders the attack with his lateral running. We made breaks when the attack went away from him - mostly inside balls off Quade. I don't understand the value. He doesn't get you over the advantage line. He doesn't run straight & hard. He doesn't give offensive defence. He kills the shape and structure of the attack. Get rid of this cancer !

 

[cyclopath]

Disagree about Horne, Naza.
He might be light, but is plenty strong, and as we've seen in the S14 he breaks the first tackle regularly as it is. Plus, unlike AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) he can, and will, offload the ball. Plus he is pretty quick. Finally, he seems to have a natural instinct for how to defend the 13 channel - he does it bloody well. I have no problem with his size, 'cos he has ticker. He has many of the attributes of Tim Horan (and settle Queenslanders, I'm not suggesting he is as good a player...yet) which I, and many others, admired.
Those other bigger guys like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Ioane tend to move about a bit anyway and can chime in, so I see no problem with Horne there. I would rather his other talents were there than not.
But he may also be a good 12 option - played more there as a youngster apparently.
Giteau the Cancer...well, the sign for Cancer is the Crab!!!

 

[Reddy!]

Giteau the Cancer...well, the sign for Cancer is the Crab!!!

Gold! haha

Giteau had some good touches, but I just don't think teams like the All Blacks or Springboks are going to let him get away with his across field darts and cut back ins. But he has alot of experience, and let's face it, it is needed.

 

[Scotty]

Saw this gem on the SMH website:



Robbie, I've got bad news for you mate, it will take a whole lot longer than 10 minutes. In fact I don't think there's enough time between now and the RWC...

Lets face it, he is never going to be able to. You can't expect to improve your skills after you get to your mid 20s. It just isn't going to happen. NFJ already gave it a try, and nothing changed.

 

[Scotty]

I think Horne was only ok, I don't really see why he is getting picked in the top 3 though. I guarantee that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would have had a much bigger impact on the game had he been picked at 13. A lot of people are saying Horne is a long term wallaby 13, and he does have the potential to be, but he hasn't proven that to me yet. I think Chambers has just as much chance as a long term 13 as Horne does.

I'm with Naza, in that I'd like to see Horne at 12, or at least playing inside Giteau more often. Horne's running angles, and Coopers crisp passing would put more pressure on the inside backs of the opposition. Giteau should range wider in attack so he can be the second ball player setting up the outside backs.

You could see the distinct difference in Giteau and Cooper's playmaking abilities. Cooper just has much better vision that Giteau, and his first instinct is to pass, second is to run. Giteau is run first, pass second, so he should never consider himself a flyhalf. Have a look at Mitchell's try from Coopers inside ball. Giteau received the ball and started to try and take on his opposite on the outside, even though the space was inside. Cooper tracked behind him, noticed the space and cut back a touch while calling for the ball. Giteau gave the ball inside, and Cooper already knew he would be giving it onto Mitchell on his inside. They are like chalk and cheese.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't actually think Horne is that light. He looks like he's got a pretty spindly frame but he's pretty tall for a centre and I remember reading somewhere that he's int he mid 90kg's.