Wallabies v England
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Cutter
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
When you want to put pressure on a lineout in defence, you send up the 2 jumper to compete every time. It means the 2 ball is going to be difficult to win and that the thrower will be forced to throw longer meaning they have to clear the 2 jumper to hit his jumper. ie a longer throw. If the thrower is confident, they normally go to 4 or longer straight away. That the Wallabies persisted with 2 throws is a sign of a lack of confidence in the lineout and a lack of intelligence as well. Very worrying.
H
Hugonaut
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Cutter said:
Spot on Cutter. Getting a body up at either 1 or 2 is vital, as it also breaks the visual link between the hooker and where he wants to put the ball – experienced hookers with a good throw and a well coached, competitive line-out generally aren't too phased by that, but that's a lot of qualifications: experience, good throwing mechanics, a good coach who understands what he's trying to do with each line-out variation and good athletes as both lifters and jumpers. Not too many packs in the world can put those together, it would seem.
S
Spook
Guest
Moses said:
That's awesome :yay Well done again
NTA said:
Spot on, Nick. Why the fuck throwers take so long to throw in is a mystery to me; it's a sign of weakness. If TPN has so many problems throwing in to lineouts for Christ's sake mix it up and do a few quick ones, short ones, anything to be different. I can't recall him doing anything other than those painfully laboured slow throws.
On Ruggmatrix Link talked about how the better aerial locks in Australia's history learned the art, passed down from one to another. Eales to Giffen to Plank to Vickerman to Sharp to.....
So who's the master/apprentice on this tour?
At the whistle of the gloucester match I stood directly in front of the Brick with Eyes and Jim Williams as they discussed the scrum. (unfortunately a pommy hack wouldn't shut up so I couldn't properly eaves drop).
This, together with the breakdown are understandably focus points, but to Spook's lineout post, who the fuck is looking after the lineout?
From Link it sounds like this is classically more a player to player transfer of skill, and I don't see who's gonna do it. Potentially a little earning sideline for Vicks while he recovers?
Why not during this tour?
So who's the master/apprentice on this tour?
At the whistle of the gloucester match I stood directly in front of the Brick with Eyes and Jim Williams as they discussed the scrum. (unfortunately a pommy hack wouldn't shut up so I couldn't properly eaves drop).
This, together with the breakdown are understandably focus points, but to Spook's lineout post, who the fuck is looking after the lineout?
From Link it sounds like this is classically more a player to player transfer of skill, and I don't see who's gonna do it. Potentially a little earning sideline for Vicks while he recovers?
Why not during this tour?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Great point Gagger.
Anybody who has been at a Tahs lineout session when Vickerman was there would have no illusions as to who was the de facto lineout coach. He got right up his team mates and didn't care who he gave a rocket to. They lapped it up too.
Even separating out the throwing, the Oz lineouts are poorly organised. The Kiwis have had lineout trouble but they've been doing well against us. I don't really blame our guys when they guess right and jump just ahead of our receiver and spoil our ball or poach it. You have to say: "Well done, you bastards."
But why aren't we doing that? We used to do it well. Sure Sharpe isn't there to do the execution but why aren't we trying to do it more with the fellows we have on parts of the field where we should?
As for throwing the ball in: Kiwi Hore used to be like a dart player for the pub D team and now he can throw OK. Why can't our guys improve too? Moore used to be like dead-eyed Dick but now he looks like a drunk trying to put a key into a lock.
The deterioration in both of our lineout throwers have taken away any confidence in long throws and opponents know it. Take the accurate long throw out of the repertoire and it's like an NFL team with a quarterback with a weak arm: even the short passes don't work so well because defenders know the ball is not going long very often.
Yeah - bring in V Man.
Anybody who has been at a Tahs lineout session when Vickerman was there would have no illusions as to who was the de facto lineout coach. He got right up his team mates and didn't care who he gave a rocket to. They lapped it up too.
Even separating out the throwing, the Oz lineouts are poorly organised. The Kiwis have had lineout trouble but they've been doing well against us. I don't really blame our guys when they guess right and jump just ahead of our receiver and spoil our ball or poach it. You have to say: "Well done, you bastards."
But why aren't we doing that? We used to do it well. Sure Sharpe isn't there to do the execution but why aren't we trying to do it more with the fellows we have on parts of the field where we should?
As for throwing the ball in: Kiwi Hore used to be like a dart player for the pub D team and now he can throw OK. Why can't our guys improve too? Moore used to be like dead-eyed Dick but now he looks like a drunk trying to put a key into a lock.
The deterioration in both of our lineout throwers have taken away any confidence in long throws and opponents know it. Take the accurate long throw out of the repertoire and it's like an NFL team with a quarterback with a weak arm: even the short passes don't work so well because defenders know the ball is not going long very often.
Yeah - bring in V Man.
S
Spook
Guest
There's a bloke called Foley who is meant to be a pretty good lineout coach..
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
Yeah Vickerman was a big loss for us I'm hoping he eventually comes back as the AB's will also have Jack & Williams on board next year.
Still hold out hope for Tom Hockings at the Force he was brilliant in 2008 but faded badly in 2009 with a bad run of injuries.
Kimlin is another good prospect but I just wish that Heenan & McMeniman weren't so injury prone they'd be 50 test veterans by now with a bit of luck.
Still hold out hope for Tom Hockings at the Force he was brilliant in 2008 but faded badly in 2009 with a bad run of injuries.
Kimlin is another good prospect but I just wish that Heenan & McMeniman weren't so injury prone they'd be 50 test veterans by now with a bit of luck.
I am really looking forward to seeing the good Quade in action tonight. Long balls hitting Diggers, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Drew and Hynes all running at pace. Short pop balls to players running subtle angles. Running into holes that open up when Gits takes the ball to the line.
Please, please, please tell me Robbie made the bad Quade stay at home.
Please, please, please tell me Robbie made the bad Quade stay at home.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Don't underestimate the Pom centres. Nobody really knows how they are going to work out or how big unit winger Banahan will perform or Monye at fullback for that matter, but they are all good players though our backs should have the edge in playing together and training together experience.
12 Geraghty had a great year for London Irish last season and has worked with the ex-Exiles and present England coach Brian Smith for some time. As I said in the second post on this thread: he has good hands and feet. He is fast and effective on the run but is not great at slipping tackles; nor is he a noted front-on defender as Wilko is. From what I have seen of him this season at his new club, Saints, the good form prevails.
On the face of it: Geraghty will be starting tonight only because Flutey is crocked but it will give England manager a good read on how he can handle starting in the biggest match of his life. Geraghty's choice would be to play 10 for England and he and Cipriani, are looked at as the long term successors to Wilko; but an assured performance at 12 tonight will do him no harm for later selection at 10.
The contest between Quade Cooper and Geraghty will be one of the interesting points of the match because if the Pom will be under harsh scrutiny; so will the Aussie be. And Cooper will be trying to prove his big match ability also.
13 Hipkiss may not have been playing either had Tindall and others been available, but as I indicated before: you have to nail this guy at the tackle line else he will cause havoc with his supporting runners behind it. Centres don't necessarily defend against each other a lot in the 15 man game but if they do I would back Digby to cover him but not vice versa. My fear about Digby is the reading of stuff that Brian Smith has cooked up.
Another fear I have is Banahan coming off the wing in the set piece, especially near our line. Although this bloke is not as much of a footie player as Cueto is on the other wing, he is farquing huge and hard to stop even when you know what is coming up.
I would try to catch full back Monye out with a few deft kicks as his read of the fullback role wouldn't be great, and if the kick goes between Banahan and him, all the better. The big winger as a wide turning circle. Come to think of it I'd put some attacking kicks behind Banahan.
All this hoo-haa for about either team has to be underwritten by the forwards doing their job. For the Poms: Crane at 8 doesn't impress me, 6 Croft is a hard player like Rocky, but neither he nor even 7 Moody are great at groundwork.
If get some consistency including: set piece, having a good work rate at the contests, and the back line drills work during the game, we should win. But if the Poms slow the ball down to the pace of their 4, 5, 8 and front row, we turn the ball over all the time (pay attention Ciffy) and have to rely on low percentage brilliancies to wing the chockies, we will get second.
12 Geraghty had a great year for London Irish last season and has worked with the ex-Exiles and present England coach Brian Smith for some time. As I said in the second post on this thread: he has good hands and feet. He is fast and effective on the run but is not great at slipping tackles; nor is he a noted front-on defender as Wilko is. From what I have seen of him this season at his new club, Saints, the good form prevails.
On the face of it: Geraghty will be starting tonight only because Flutey is crocked but it will give England manager a good read on how he can handle starting in the biggest match of his life. Geraghty's choice would be to play 10 for England and he and Cipriani, are looked at as the long term successors to Wilko; but an assured performance at 12 tonight will do him no harm for later selection at 10.
The contest between Quade Cooper and Geraghty will be one of the interesting points of the match because if the Pom will be under harsh scrutiny; so will the Aussie be. And Cooper will be trying to prove his big match ability also.
13 Hipkiss may not have been playing either had Tindall and others been available, but as I indicated before: you have to nail this guy at the tackle line else he will cause havoc with his supporting runners behind it. Centres don't necessarily defend against each other a lot in the 15 man game but if they do I would back Digby to cover him but not vice versa. My fear about Digby is the reading of stuff that Brian Smith has cooked up.
Another fear I have is Banahan coming off the wing in the set piece, especially near our line. Although this bloke is not as much of a footie player as Cueto is on the other wing, he is farquing huge and hard to stop even when you know what is coming up.
I would try to catch full back Monye out with a few deft kicks as his read of the fullback role wouldn't be great, and if the kick goes between Banahan and him, all the better. The big winger as a wide turning circle. Come to think of it I'd put some attacking kicks behind Banahan.
All this hoo-haa for about either team has to be underwritten by the forwards doing their job. For the Poms: Crane at 8 doesn't impress me, 6 Croft is a hard player like Rocky, but neither he nor even 7 Moody are great at groundwork.
If get some consistency including: set piece, having a good work rate at the contests, and the back line drills work during the game, we should win. But if the Poms slow the ball down to the pace of their 4, 5, 8 and front row, we turn the ball over all the time (pay attention Ciffy) and have to rely on low percentage brilliancies to wing the chockies, we will get second.
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