Wallabies Tri Nations

[Gnostic]

I said some time ago that I agree with the Bob Dwyer philosophy that the Captain has to be the first player picked in the team. If all were fit there are three players who are without doubt first choice over all others. 1. Robinson 9. Genia 7. Pocock

Two of those are Captain material Genia and Pocock.

At this stage I would like to see Pocock get the Captaincy.

Elsom may find his form without the Captaincy and actually deserve his starting spot again. As it stands now if Higginbum was fit he would have to start at 6 ahead of Elsom and Palu would be 8 ahead of Elsom if fit also.

 

[DPK]

Not every leader in the team needs to be captain. Everyone talks about the great team at the turn of the century and how it was filled with leaders; this is the beginning of a similar formula.

 

[JimboJoe1006]

I don't see Rocky a great Wallaby captain, but I think the team is going through enough turmoil with performance and selection at the moment to change it. I hope Genia captains the team after the WC.

 

[Gagger]

Leaving people's viewpoints on his form aside (the stats would say he's doing pretty well) what's Elsom been doing wrong, or not doing as captain?

Seems to me he's not happy with the teams form or approach and is making that clear to whoever needs to hear it (Gits) both during the game and after it. He's also open with the media about it post game etc, rather than just trotting out cliches. All makes me think he can see the problems and is trying to address them.

Decision making seems fine, player execution letting everyone down. Ref management passable and improving.

 

[liquor box]

I think Higginbothom should get his chance, he played great rugby for the reds this year and is deceptivly quick.

I dont think there is any deception involved, he out ran backs over 60m to score a try. He is just straight up fast for a big man

 

[Joe Blow]

As it stands now if Higginbum was fit he would have to start at 6 ahead of Elsom and Palu would be 8 ahead of Elsom if fit also.

That is a little harsh on Elsom. He was very busy against Ireland doing the work of the tight five along with Pocock. Higginbotham has never played a test and there are question marks over his level of physicallity.
Rocky Elsom is still an automatic selection but he is not a natural leader. He may well grow into the job.

 

[Gagger]

If the criticisms on Elsom is lack of impact in the tight, how the hell does Higginbotham (most quoted skillset his pace) fix that? Higgers biggest problems were exactly going missing in the tight at S14 level.

Absence has made some hearts grow even fonder

 

[Newb]

agreed gagger. i like higgers a lot but i don't think he's ready to just slot in. back from injury, hasn't and hasn't had the chance to earn the appearance. would only get there on speculation and there is no way elsom is getting dropped on speculation (perhaps brown should be).

with a few light tackling back in the works already, all the defensive sturdiness available is needed and tossing in higgers isn't in line with that.

 

[Langthorne]

Higginbotham is often mentioned as an alternative 6 or 8, but I don't agree. If he was fit for the June tests or (more realitically) the 'Baa Baa' games I would have put him in for sure. Due to his injury I can't really see him coming in except in the case of multiple injuries, and even then it wouldn't be at 8 as he really hasn't played much s14 in that position. I think he has great potential, but Elsom is currently the better player (and his s14 form was very good throughout, maybe with a couple of small blips).

Mitchell played well throughout most of the s14 too, and his defence improved throughout. The strange thing is the drop in his form since.

Rocky is not my first preference as captain, but i think he is growing into it - with a few more poor performances from the Wallabies he will progress to constantly pissed off and giving the team a spray at every available opportunity (a kind of Phil Waugh lite).

As for Wallaby selections - I have never subscribed to the youth policy, especially as it has been a half arsed attempt. Either select the best now in order to win (please no BS about s14 form, we all know who the form players were) or really go with youth all the way (not my preference, but at least it would have been consistent) in order to win the 2019 World Cup (or some other remote event).

 

[TOCC]

Higgers does have pretty sloppy ball handling as well, it would still be great to get him back however, start a bit of competition for blindsided, given rocky a kick up the arse

 

[Reddy!]

Phil Waugh is the best captain in Australia, pity his Wallaby days are in the past these days. Perhaps he'll make a good coach one day.

 

[Lindommer]

Phil Waugh WAS the best captain in Australia. As he gets older and slower he wants to play a narrow game, which is stifling the Tahs more and more. Next year I hope the Tahs' captaincy is passed on to someone else (don't know whom) and Phil is strongly urged to lose some weight to help him get around the paddock better. He's become awfully muscle-bound the last few years which I reckon affects his mobility.

 

[fatprop]

Phil Waugh WAS the best captain in Australia. As he gets older and slower he wants to play a narrow game, which is stifling the Tahs more and more. Next year I hope the Tahs' captaincy is passed on to someone else (don't know whom) and Phil is strongly urged to lose some weight to help him get around the paddock better. He's become awfully muscle-bound the last few years which I reckon affects his mobility.

Someone should have told Lote as well, I think the gym work often may come because elders lose the ability to/yearnings to do the road work and lifting rocks is simpler/easier

 

[RugbyReg]

Leaving people's viewpoints on his form aside (the stats would say he's doing pretty well)

That's the bit I don't want to set aside. To me the best Wallaby back rows I saw were basically this:

1 x freak on baller
1 x grafter with a great work rate
1 x power forward, ball carrier, big hitter.

Now the first spot is usually filled by our openside. Poido on 84, Poido in 91, Wilson in 92-93, Wilson in 98-00

Now the other two obviously switches between 8 and 6.

In 84 we had the ball running Bird Tuynman with the big hitter David Codey, with both having good work rates.

In 91 we had Gavin the grafter at 8 and Willie O the power man at 6.

In 92 we had the same, this time with a different on baller. In 93 Illie Tabua came along and filled the power forward role at 6 with Willie O injured..

In 98-00 we had our No 8 Kefu, with a little bit of Williams, as the power men. The big ball runners to make a real impact on the opposition with the ball and without, and our blindside was the ever reliable and hard working Matt Cockbain.

Perhaps I am blinded by this, but that's what I want now. Pocock has the on-ball stuff sorted. The balance between Rocky and Brown just aint right. If Cliffy Palu is there, then it's perfect. But if he's not, I think we need to find an impact player. For me the next best option is Scotty Higginbotham. Size and strength. Who cares if he fades out a bit, as long as he makes the required impact that he did this year. It is who Willie O, Kef, Williams and even Owen Finegan played as well.

If we aren't going to pick Higgers, through injury or lack of game time, then I think we need to change Rocky's game. He can be dynamic. Let's use him like that. As Timmy Horan suggested, let's run him wider. Brown has a good work rate, he's making plenty of tackles and runs and hitting the rucks, he can do the unglamorous stuff ala Cockbain and Gavin. Have Elsom biding his time a little. Preying on the smaller backs, running on to Quade (god knows no one else is) and let him go for the big tackles. He's still got a responsibility to be active at the rucks, but his talents could be so much more than just a draft-horse.

To me the balance of the backrow is something the Wallabies have got right so often, but when we've got it wrong the whole team is impacted. At the moment I think we have it wrong.

 

[Joe Blow]

Agree 100% that the balance is off in our back row.

There are a couple of options. Higgenbotham in at 6 or 8 to team up with Rocky and Pocock.
Mumm or Chapman to 6 and Rocky to 8.
Mumm is not doing well in the second row at test level but is a grafter and would go well as a tight 6.
Rocky could then play more of a linkman type game. He has a sensational running game which is just not being utilised right now.
He is also tough as nails and a lot of the recent criticism is not justified.
He was heavily involved against Ireland but was not flashy.

 

[Gagger]

RugbyReg - if you're saying we're painfully missing Palu and Brown isn't cutting it, then you won't get any disagreement from me.

On the backrow re-jiggling - maybe, although I don't think you can make up for the fact that we just plain don't have the "1 x power forward, ball carrier, big hitter" with Palu out. All the shuffling around won't hide that.

My points are
a) In the role he's been playing - traditional 6 - Rocky's been doing a very good job
b) He's also captaining the side well

 

[Scotty]

If we aren't going to pick Higgers, through injury or lack of game time, then I think we need to change Rocky's game. He can be dynamic. Let's use him like that. As Timmy Horan suggested, let's run him wider. Brown has a good work rate, he's making plenty of tackles and runs and hitting the rucks, he can do the unglamorous stuff ala Cockbain and Gavin. Have Elsom biding his time a little. Preying on the smaller backs, running on to Quade (god knows no one else is) and let him go for the big tackles. He's still got a responsibility to be active at the rucks, but his talents could be so much more than just a draft-horse.

Noddy,

The only issue I have with this is the way the game is going we need to be able to have more ability to contest and commit to the breakdown. This wasn't as big and issue when Cockbain, Kefu and Wilson were running around, as it was about quick recycle, and limited counter rucking. If we gave Elsom the licence to essentially seagul, ala Finnegan, then you will need a whole lot more tight forwards working their arses off. Brown and Pocock ain't going to be able to do it themselves. And there is a big part of our problem. We often don't commit enough to the ruck in defense or attack and when we do they are often not effective enough. It might change when the likes of Moore, TPN and Robinson come back, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[TOCC]

With hoiles out injured higgers will definitely be called in, also we could possibly see Leroy Houston called up, Robbie deans was watching him play in saturday

 

[RugbyReg]

With hoiles out injured higgers will definitely be called in, also we could possibly see Leroy Houston called up, Robbie deans was watching him play in saturday

and reports indicate he had a cracker?

 

[Reddy!]

Leroy is the skillful link player this backrow needs. Might be a year and several kilograms away from playing for the Wallabies though.