• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Wallabies Squad - the Link Era

Status
Not open for further replies.
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Dugit - I think it is still a compromise as it means you're missing out on Folau or Mogg at fullback who are both much better under the high ball (Folau vastly superior), better defenders (Folau again much better), better broken field runners and in the case of Mogg a much better general play kicker.
 
lewisr

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
Out of interest, how much do people think Folau is worth to us? Remembering that it is at the expense of topping up contracts like Liam Gill's.​
​
He is an absolute freak of a talent but I'm personally getting sick of this whole contractual game that sees him go from "yeh im signing' to "nah I just want to wait till after the Rugby Championship" every week. It really pisses me off that someone like Gilly hasn't been able to get a top up and yet we have the ARU falling head over heels for izzys signature.​
​
Again, don't get me wrong, he is a freak of a player, but this whole mercenary concept is getting old... Unless he's a long term prospect, which he's made it pretty clear he isn't, maybe its time to let him decide and get on with developing our own freaks in Henry Speight/ Nick Cummins/ Joe Tomane/ JOC (James O'Connor) etc etc.​
 
Sully

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
And to be fair if he did kick into touch it would be a single digit percentage of the amount Phipps does it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
Richo

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Some signings are about the rugby field, and some are also about selling the game. Izzy falls into the latter category, whereas Gill goes into the former.

I think Folau has the potential to help lift rugby's popularity again in the lead up to the RWC15. The talk seems to be that he'll sign for two years, which would take him through until then. That's about as "long term" as any prospect can be in this day and age. I'd say that he's worth paying the same amount that Genia receives, even if he is never as influential on the pitch.

As for Gill, he's young. I have no doubt he'll get a top-up next time around. I also doubt that the trade-off you describe exists. My take is that Gill was not topped up because Pocock and Hooper were deemed to be ahead of him at 7. With only 30 or so available, it doesn't make sense to top-up all 3.
 
D

Dugit

Frank Row (1)
Braveheart81 said:
Dugit - I think it is still a compromise as it means you're missing out on Folau or Mogg at fullback who are both much better under the high ball (Folau vastly superior), better defenders (Folau again much better), better broken field runners and in the case of Mogg a much better general play kicker.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hear you Braveheart81 but Cooper will always end up defending at fullback when we don't have the ball and Link likes him back there to setup counter attacks, so then who comes in to 10 to defend? I'd keep Folau on the wing and was thinking Mogg at fullback until this came in to my head. I think To'omua would have Mogg covered in defence but your right about Mogg's kicking. Just a bit of food for thought.
 
Richo

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Dugit said:
Yeah I hear you Braveheart81 but Cooper will always end up defending at fullback when we don't have the ball and Link likes him back there to setup counter attacks, so then who comes in to 10 to defend?
Click to expand...

My guess is that we won't see that structure used as consistently for the Wallabies as for the Reds. If it happens, I reckon it's more likely to be in the Dan Carter style - selectively dropping back at likely counter-attacking opportunities.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Dugit - I think that McKenzie makes the most of the resources available to him at the Reds but it would be silly to use Cooper in the same way for the Wallabies. At the Reds, Link isn't really losing anything by having a 'pinch defender' in the line and moving Cooper to fullback on defence because Cooper's counter attack is better than the other options available. In fact he is probably improving things by minimizing the involvement of his worst defender and increasing the involvement of a better counter-attacker.

Doing the same sort of thing at the Wallabies is definitely making a compromise because you can no longer argue that you're improving the overall nature of the side by moving Cooper to fullback on defence. Whether he has any upside on defending there relative to Folau or Mogg is highly dubious.
 
Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
If Bieber jumps ship to France or Japan, then there will be rivers of Gold for LFG* to receive whatever ARU top up contract he needs to stay here.

There is also talk of the Honey Badger moving offshore. Not sure what sort of top up he is on, if any, but as much colour as he adds to the local scene, if he isn't here, then ..... ... just saying....




*LFG = Liam Gill (translation for the non twee)
 
GaffaCHinO

GaffaCHinO

Peter Sullivan (51)
The Badger wants to stay in Aus and at the Force if conversation people had with him at the awards night on sat are to be believed. He is waiting on a ARU contract before making hims mind up which eh ahsnt received yet.
 
scaraby

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
Do you need Cooper dropping back if Folau can take the ball on the fly, draw a couple of chasers and offload to Mogg and co. Cooper is scarier closer to advantage line with ball in hand and 2 or three flat hole runners.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Braveheart81 said:
I still don't think it is as cut and dry as this.

If Genia was unavailable I would certainly start White, but off the bench, I think the choice is much more difficult.

Phipps is a better ball runner as well as being a stronger tackler. As a reserve halfback who you might be calling on to bring a bit of an attacking spark in the last 10 minutes I think Phipps is potentially a better option.
Click to expand...


Phipps' running game does not have the same impact on a game as White's kicking. And Nic White also runs strongly when he chooses, and his passing game is better on the whole. I think Link would be able to devise a much more effective game plan and that plan would be managed better with Nic in the team than with Phipps. It will be a travesty imo if Phipps starts or sits on the bench at White's expense.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Hugh Jarse said:
The Australian rugby public has invested a lot of expectation in Link being the saviour to all the deficiencies in Wallabydom, and the reason for poor or inconsistent performance in the recent times is all due to a imported coach, not the players.

We have now got what we want. The last thing we need is for our saviour to be no better than the mug we just got rid of.

In many respects, Link was/is a last roll of the dice. When or If that doesn't work where do we go to from there? Jake White?

After all as the Oracle of Australian Rugby Philosophical Thought, the Exalted Matthew Burke has pointed out, it is only 760 days until the next World Cup.
Click to expand...

I know this is heretical, but the coach can't do much if other teams simply have better players than us. Rather than be a last throw of the dice, a new coach is an opportunity to build, to move closer to the position where we have the best players. It's never an instant process, but instead comes and goes in cycles. New Zealand generally have better players because they generally have better systems from the grass roots upwards. Fans hate that idea though. They think that if we're not currently the best then it must be because someone visible is doing something wrong and must be sacked, upon which we'll re-assume our rightful role as the number one team.
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Groucho said:
I know this is heretical, but the coach can't do much if other teams simply have better players than us. Rather than be a last throw of the dice, a new coach is an opportunity to build, to move closer to the position where we have the best players. It's never an instant process, but instead comes and goes in cycles. New Zealand generally have better players because they generally have better systems from the grass roots upwards. Fans hate that idea though. They think that if we're not currently the best then it must be because someone visible is doing something wrong and must be sacked, upon which we'll re-assume our rightful role as the number one team.
Click to expand...

Reasonable post.

But I still say time was up on Deans at the end of 2011 after four years.

There's no "right" to stay in the job. A body in the driver's seat can be paid out and sacked at any time the union wants it. Julia Gillard knows it well. As does John O'Neill.

That's the way it works and that's the way it will remain.
 
Ash

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Sully said:
The whole cooper to fullback thing has been blown out of proportion. Even the Reds don't do it every game. I can remember at least two games this year that cooper has defended in the line.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...

Exactly, and I'm sure there was actually a couple more than two games, but the two most recent were the Cheetahs and the game before it (Sharks? Stormers?).

When Morahan played fullback, Cooper defended in the line (but still dropped back a lot, like most 10s do these days - Carter, Cruden, and so on). When Lance or Lucas played fullback, Cooper defended at fullback. That small fact seems to be ignored - even McKenzie has stated he finds it frustrating, from memory McKenzie was queried about the tactic (Cooper defending at fullback) after a game that Cooper actually defended at 10. McKenzie has often stated that he has no problem with Cooper defending at 10, and this is shown by the fact that McKenzie has Cooper at 10 when it's better for the team.

Cooper has been defending off and on at 10 over the last few years, e.g. in the final game last year where he was suspended for the high shot on Barnes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top