Wallabies Backline for the world cup.

[Braveheart81]

When Deans appeared on The Rugby Club two weeks ago he explicitly said that Barnes was effectively the incumbent 12 at the end of last season (the Spring tour). I don't think Deans has in any way ruled out going back to that. With every good game that McCabe plays it obviously makes that choice more difficult, but I certainly expect Barnes to be given a shot to gain that spot back.

 

[Richo]

My guess is from the bench against Italy, at least.

 

[tigerland12]

There is way to many possibilities for our first choice backline. I'll have another dig, since my mind has changed a bit since my first one.

Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Fainga'a, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Horne, O'Connor, Beale

Personally I think Mitchell is better then JOC (James O'Connor) as a winger, and therefore should be picked there. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) looked good against the AB's, as did Fainga'a, so I'd like to see that center pairing. That's taking nothing away from McCabe, who has been solid, but he probably isn't our best option when you look at the other centers we have. Going to be some good players carrying the water come WC time.

 

[Braveheart81]

Why is everyone in such a hurry for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to go back to 13?

Do you not think there is some correlation between him being moved to the wing and having by far his best game of the test season?

I don't think we can move him back to 13 and expect him to be just as great.

 

[Sully]

Exactly! He has been shit at 13 all year. Then he gets moved to the wing and go okay so people everywhere start chirping about moving him to 13. Leave where he is!

 

[Braveheart81]

I think you have to compare apples with apples.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 14 needs to be compared with JOC (James O'Connor) at 14 and Mitchell at 14.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s play at 13 needs to be compared with Fingers' play at 13.

It's like saying that Higgers had an average game when he was selected at No. 8 so we shouldn't pick him to play 6 again.

 

[Richo]

Remembering, too, that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s natural position is somewhere in the outside backs.

 

[Slim 293]

Would not be surprised to see a 4/3 split against Russia or the USA because it won't matter who we play, but I doubt we will against Ireland or Italy.

I'm not knocking McCabe, btw, and I've been stoked with how well he is playing. He is simply a less complete player than Barnes. I'd like to see 12. Barnes 13. A Finger by the knockout stages.

I think that's a ridiculous thing to say.

They're completely different players.

Barnes can't bash it up and put in the hard hits like McCabe... and McCabe doesn't have Barnes' kicking/passing game.

As I said earlier, Fainga'a/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seem to be getting a lot of credit for the weekend, but I though McCabe was more impressive. Again.

He made as many tackles as the other two combined. None ineffective. Only missed one. Made metres with the ball, and backed up at the rucks.

Right now McCabe deserves the 12 jumper more than Barnes, and until McCabe starts playing badly (which doesn't look likely right now), then Barnes should sit on the bench and act as cover for Cooper.

Barnes wasn't exactly very impressive this year. Put that down to headknocks. But he's in no position to be put in the starting lineup unless he's playing at 10 against the USA or Russia.

 

[TOCC]

Defensively astute centre pairing

12. Barnes
13. Fainga'a

I think i would prefer to see Barnes in at 12, but only if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) remains on the wing.
If Deans reverts to JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing, then i think we need McCabe in the centres to give another crash ball option.

 

[Richo]

I guess you can read that as some sort of heinous insult if you want to, Slim.

What I meant was that Barnes is a tough defender, runs straight (although is not as hard-running as McCabe), kicks in play, distributes, kicks for goal and has strong leadership abilities, as evidenced by him being given the VC a couple of years ago. I don't think any of that is particularly disputable. Neither is it an insult to McCabe to note that he does not do all these things.

 

[Slim 293]

I didn't take it as any kind of insult, and didn't respond in such.

But rather I thought it was silly to say that McCabe is an incomplete version of Barnes.

That's like saying Barnes is an incomplete version of George Smith.

 

[Richo]

Since they both play 12, both run straight and are both defenders it is absolutely nothing like saying Barnes is an incomplete version of George Smith. And that is even assuming I was suggesting that there were deficiencies in McCabe's game, which I wasn't. I was saying that Barnes does things McCabe doesn't.

 

[Slim 293]

Since they both play 12, both run straight and are both defenders it is absolutely nothing like saying Barnes is an incomplete version of George Smith. And that is even assuming I was suggesting that there were deficiencies in McCabe's game, which I wasn't. I was saying that Barnes does things McCabe doesn't.

But the point being that McCabe does things that Barnes doesn't either.

They're two completely different styles of players.

 

[JimboJoe1006]

To state the obvious Genia, Cooper, Ioane and Beale are all locked-in. Therefore build the centres and winger around these four stars. Should Mitchell return to full-fitness, as his game against Canada suggest he is, then he is another certain starter. At 12, I had enjoyed watching McCabe hard runs and think he has really taken his opportunity with both hands. In saying that, Barnes' level head and ability to control the game should Quade be struggling (ala Bledisloe 1 2011) is very important and likely to be required in big games. Furthermore, the role which McCabe has played so well can be performed by a fit Mitchell, that hard straghting run in the midfield - as was doing so well for NSW. At 13, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), A.Faainga are all pretty close. I would loved Horne to have gone injury-free this year, because I think he would have made the position his own. However, in the circumstances I would select Ant F at 13. His performances last two weeks have been extremely good - doing the simple things very well and making the hard things look simple. Similar to Conrad Smith.

Against Italy
Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Barnes, Ant, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale
Burgess, Horne, Mitchell

Projected knockout stages team
Genia, Cooper, Ioane, Barnes, Ant, Mitchell, Beale
Burgess, JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[Richo]

I get that he's a crash-ball runner and hits the line harder with ball-in-hand. He's much more inclined to this than Barnes and better at it. That doesn't meant the two can't be compared.

But I shall bow out. Stupid argument, really.

 

[Scotty]

I think that's a ridiculous thing to say.

They're completely different players.

Barnes can't bash it up and put in the hard hits like McCabe... and McCabe doesn't have Barnes' kicking/passing game.

As I said earlier, Fainga'a/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seem to be getting a lot of credit for the weekend, but I though McCabe was more impressive. Again.

He made as many tackles as the other two combined. None ineffective. Only missed one. Made metres with the ball, and backed up at the rucks.

Right now McCabe deserves the 12 jumper more than Barnes, and until McCabe starts playing badly (which doesn't look likely right now), then Barnes should sit on the bench and act as cover for Cooper.

Barnes wasn't exactly very impressive this year. Put that down to headknocks. But he's in no position to be put in the starting lineup unless he's playing at 10 against the USA or Russia.

It is a bit hard to compare tackle stats for backs, except completion %. Overall number of tackles is kind of dependent on where the opposition runs to.

 

[Slim 293]

It is a bit hard to compare tackle stats for backs, except completion %. Overall number of tackles is kind of dependent on where the opposition runs to.

Overall completion rate according to rugbystats:

McCabe 95%
Fainga'a 83%
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 64%

 

[Athilnaur]

Respectfully disagree Scotty, even completion rates are up for debate if you are comparing 12 vs 13 vs 14. You can't expect a winger to achieve the same completion rates an inside centre does imo!

But I do think its fair to say that 18 completed tackles is pretty impressive vs Ant's 10 tackles, AACs nine tackles or Nonu's four... Especially since the best tackle count in that game was 19 (Elsom, Pocock).

And that the only player in the Wallabies who routinely performs as well as McCabe in tackling is Pocock, tho Ioane has shone a couple of times.

 

[Nusadan]

Mentioned in the JOC (James O'Connor) thread about the feasibility of trying him out as a half back a la Giteau...it would certainly go a long way in solving the puzzle of what to do with all that talent...

If even Fat Cat can play dummy half in rucks well, why not JOC (James O'Connor)?

Genia usually plays the whole of 80 mins or close to it anyway.

 

[TOCC]

I dont mean to pick on McCabe, but one thing which did concern me defensively the other night was the easy meters that Nonu made through the midfield, McCabe may have hung on for dear life, but between McCabe and Ioane, Nonu was getting across the advantage line at will.