Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[lewisr]

If you're talking about Beale - it is simply that he has the cred at Test level. He clearly gives Deans something (besides covering a few positions) that Quade does not.

'Cred' like dropping the ball and missing numerous tackles in that first test against the All Blacks? Sorry mate but he is maybe slightly less error prone that Quade. They are both high risk high return players that have proven throughout their history to be effective together on a pitch. This constant claim that test rugby MUST be conservative and MUST be a percentage game is negative and is not what Australian rugby is about.

 

[vidiot]

Beale is a more useful addition than Cooper. Covers 10 and 15 well, and Deans will want him to do both. Timing of his going off the rails was somewhat unfortunate. Who knows, maybe Deans' paddle board will be effective therapy and he will run out wearing 10 in 2 weeks.

 

[lewisr]

I would prefer that than JOC (James O'Connor).... Incumbency has always been a big thing with Deans. So maybe a reality?

 

[Pfitzy]

the stupid part is

No - this is your stupid part:

Getting over the advantage line and then offloading is all well and good when you can.

What I said above was in reference to them offloading too much behind the advantage line after a mistake, transferring pressure to the next man or having the Lions kick through when the ball goes to deck. Hold the ball, stay on your feet as long as you can, and hope the cavalry arrive to get you to deck. Stupid no-look passes when you're on the back foot help nothing.

 

[Slim 293]

Very similar - they all selected players who the public said didn't deserve it, and we saw all our success up to 2001 eroded to nothing as we came to terms with the fact we'd just had a golden age end on us in terms of talent.

* Eddie Jones picking Gregan over Whitaker, and Knuckles picking any prop ahead of Ben Robinson, being examples. The difference is, I was right.

Provide quotes for Deans' criticism BTW -that is so long ago I'd forgotten

Why would Jones have picked Whitaker over Gregan?

He was never a better player and Gregan was deservingly the captain.........

And Connolly gave Robinson his first test cap.........

Aaaaaaaaaand Robinson didn't earn his place as starting Wallaby loosehead until 2008 and was rewarded so.........

 

[en_force_er]

Cooper showed in the game on Saturday against the Lions both why many coaches would pick him for their Wallaby 10, and also why many wouldn't.

His physicality (read: defence) has improved and he did some electric things like throw some magic long balls.

However, he also did his usual passing the ball to a player in a worse position than him (which he probably does to keep him alive for the next play but always loses 3 or 4m) and showed that his kicking game is not test level (which is probably why they elected not to use it that much).

Also, all that good work he did from 15 is effectively null and void when you don't want him defending there (you'd want Izzy counter-attacking from there because why the fuck else would you pick him?).

Basically, I don't think this is the world's worst decision. I would name him in the Wallaby squad though, even if he wasn't in the match day 23, but that's just me.

 

[Gnostic]

Pftizy - You can go look up the presser where he bagged Quade. It was a brutal assessment that basically put the loss down to QC (Quade Cooper).

As for Connolly and Jones. Seriously go back and watch the games again. Very very briefly:-

1) Macqueen - constant recycle game plan. Do not get too far away from the support players and constantly recycle. Started to fall apart when when Refs started to penalise players for sealing off which the Australians under Macqueen were adept at in numbers.
2) Jones - Play by the numbers. the field was divided in quadrants (or whatever the term was he used). The play was directed so that players had to be in such and such quadrant at each particular point in a phase. It was extremely regimented and became very predictable. There were stories about players being told off for being "out of position" ie not in the right quadrant after scoring. The plan was falling to bits by the end and even its evolution couldn't keep up with law changes/interpretation. Gregan was kept on because he played to that plan and was a better defender than Whits, even though he was well off the pace towards the end. If you could find any of my comment from that time it would show that I argued heatedly for Whits who was the starting 9 for Randwick whenever they got to play Club in those days. Edit - this game plan was also charectised for the homogeny as afr as possible in the players. Two openside flankers for speed, fast, loose props. The set peice was for re-starting the sequence not an actual part of the competition.
3)Connolly - had basically 18 months to prepare for the 2007 RWC. He instituted the traditional conservative game plan he was famous for at Qld. That required a forward pack able to compete at the set pieces and at the breakdown. They kicked for touch out of their half and attacked with ball in hand through set plays in the opposition half. Pretty simple. Looking back on the selections there was strong debate around some of them but they were genuinely arguable. Much has been said of the Marseilles defeat to the English, but if you have a look at the excellent scrum video done by Scott Allen on this site you will see that the second row was totally non-functional in that game and Sharpe took all the blame while Vickerman seemed to me to evade the rancour directed at Sharpe and certainly never had the "bad scrummager tag hung over his head. Up to that point there had been very good results.

Those three broad modes of play from 2001 - 2007 are vastly different to each other and again from what we see now.

 

[Paradox]

So this Beale guy is now crap?

So this Beale guy is now a error ridden, soft cock?

This Beale wasn't the starting 10 last year?

This Beale wasn't judged near best 15 in the world not too long ago?

This thread is getting stupid

Beale was pretty average last year and dropped from fullback. He does make a lot of errors, drops bombs, crabs across field, can't get the attack going, has looping passes, grubber kicks all the time when he forces himself out of options and doesn't maintain his fitness.

He was near the best fullback for about 4 games in 2010. Ancient history. Hope he restores my faith in him. I would never call any professional athlete a soft cock.

 

[gel]

Btw, I think deans is right not to pick Quade. It's his game plan and his call. If its a game plan the he knows Quade won't follow or fully commit to then as coach he would be nuts to pick him.

I just hope he is right about the gameplan.

 

[vidiot]

No - this is your stupid part:



What I said above was in reference to

Yeah, thanks for clarifying. I feel suitably belittled for not reading what you hadn't yet written.

 

[en_force_er]

Like it or loathe it, Beale makes less mistakes than Cooper.

He might have less recent runs on the board and he might produce less magic, I wouldn't argue that, but he makes less mistakes.

Why does Barnes get picked? He rarely makes mistakes.

A clinical test team will 9 times out of 10 score from a mistake and even in a great Cooper performance like Saturday night, there were still 2-3 mistakes.

This is not a stupid selection. It's not my selection, but there's plenty of merit behind it.

 

[fatprop]

Beale was pretty average last year and dropped from fullback. He does make a lot of errors, drops bombs, crabs across field, can't get the attack going, has looping passes, grubber kicks all the time when he forces himself out of options and doesn't maintain his fitness.

He was near the best fullback for about 4 games in 2010. Ancient history. Hope he restores my faith in him. I would never call any professional athlete a soft cock.

So crap then OK

 

[lewisr]

A clinical test team will 9 times out of 10 score from a mistake and even in a great Cooper performance like Saturday night, there were still 2-3 mistakes.

And yet the Lions did not score off of the errors that it seems only Quade can make in the world of Rugby. I.e. missed tackles, forward passes, charge downs, passes going to ground.

edit: I see the Logic behind the selection but I do not see the merit. It is Deans saying that quade is the 6th best flyhalf in Australia which is simply not true.

 

[Gnostic]

Like it or loathe it, Beale makes less mistakes than Cooper.

He might have less recent runs on the board and he might produce less magic, I wouldn't argue that, but he makes less mistakes.

Why does Barnes get picked? He rarely makes mistakes.

A clinical test team will 9 times out of 10 score from a mistake and even in a great Cooper performance like Saturday night, there were still 2-3 mistakes.

This is not a stupid selection. It's not my selection, but there's plenty of merit behind it.

A team has to have the right structures to score from a mistake. They have to have the vision and the skill sets to make the most of the mistake. You are correct in saying why Barnes is picked but not Beale. Yes Beale doesn't get charged down because most of his kicks for territory have been from 15, he doesn't throw intercept passes because he doesn't throw many long passes, he doesn't pass that much. Go back to when he was at the Tahs and you will hear the crowd booing him for his continual chip kicking and basically selfish play. There is no doubt he is a prodigous talent and an individually gifted player, anybody saying differently has little knowledge of the game. Saying he makes less mistakes than Cooper is just as wrong.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

i dont care is the better player but atm the moment. What this says to me is, that the ARU its ok if you get repeatedly flaunt them and your province to the point of being exiled.

but don't you dare bag the coach.

now i don't think cooper is a saint but many people in rugby circles have always criticised how league players seem to get away with so much and get multiple chances for off field discretions. But union has always been more respectable in this regard.

Beale's inclusion in this squad shows me how wrong this is.

This is not the only piece of information that has recently come to light that has made me sick to my stomach with the ARU. I was recently informed from the horses mouth that a certain player was to have his contract renewed by the ARU, despite the fact he was currently bench warming/out of the 22 at his province. However the ARU signed him up to a further 2 years and specifically told his province that he will from now on be an automatic selection.......form is apparently irrelevant in the northshore frat house that is the ARU

 

[Ignoto]

So this Beale guy is now crap?

So this Beale guy is now a error ridden, soft cock?

This Beale wasn't the starting 10 last year?

This Beale wasn't judged near best 15 in the world not too long ago?

This thread is getting stupid

Are we talking Beer Belly Beale? Or Booze Free Beale? The former was shocking during the Quad nations but found form on the EOYT as he was under strict guidance and control.

 

[en_force_er]

And yet the Lions did not score off of the errors that it seems only Quade can make in the world of Rugby. I.e. missed tackles, forward passes, charge downs, passes going to ground.

edit: I see the Logic behind the selection but I do not see the merit. It is Deans saying that quade is the 6th best flyhalf in Australia which is simply not true.

That was not the Lion's test team.

They've basically said they're not only mixing up their players but they're not playing anything close to the structure and calls they'll be using in a couple of weeks.

The reality is players play to the occasion.

 

[fatprop]

Are we talking Beer Belly Beale? Or Booze Free Beale? The former was shocking during the Quad nations but found form on the EOYT as he was under strict guidance and control.

The booze free unit of course, sort of like he is now

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

When KB (Kurtley Beale) is off the grog and focused he's in our best XV without a doubt. When really going he's a super player.

 

[lewisr]

That was not the Lion's test team.

They've basically said they're not only mixing up their players but they're not playing anything close to the structure and calls they'll be using in a couple of weeks.

The reality is players play to the occasion.

And he was not surrounded by Wallabies. You can say what you want but they were supposed to be a team a tier above a Reds B and yet they were unable to capitalise one the 'unique' quade errors.

Absolutely agree with the Beale comments. I just find it concerning that he has played very little rugby this year, punched his captain in the face and admitted alcoholism after breaking a deal with the ARU one week after he signed it - but then is fast tracked into the wallabies? Likewise, Luke Burgess plays 20 minutes of Super Rugby and waltzes into the squad no dramas.

Meanwhile we have a flyhalf who has played every minute of every super rugby match this year and has not stepped out of line since being fined 60k last year and he is ignored - Despite a plethora of test experience and provincial form (no not the best we've seen but a complete season at least)