Wallabies 2025

[fatprop]

Most coaches have their own team these days

 

[Eddie's Eyebrows]

Happy to be corrected but I believe JS and his entire NZ assistant coaching group are the first Wallabies coaches to be totally FIFO and kept their home bases in NZ.

Not sure how accurate that is, but I was told that by someone at RA over a year ago when they raised with me about not being overly confident that JS would be sticking around for the long term, along with his assistants.

But the entire NZ coaching group you mean Mike Cron?

Geoff Parling - Australian based
Eoin Toolin - Australian based
Laurie Fisher - Australian based

Mike Cron is at retirement age. Can't see him continuing on without Joe.

 

[Sully]

But the entire NZ coaching group you mean Mike Cron?

Geoff Parling - Australian based
Eoin Toolin - Australian based
Laurie Fisher - Australian based

Mike Cron is at retirement age. Can't see him continuing on without Joe.

I have read it somewhere in the press that when Joe goes Mike goes.

 

[whitefalcon]

Whilst I hope not, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lord retire too.

 

[JRugby2]

I think in the absence of a standout international candidate, you think about continuity. How can we keep the Schmidt infrastructure in place (assistants, high performance etc), while just changing the bloke at the top?

That's where the local candidates come in. None of them are inspiring but their strength is the ability to take the controls of a plane that's flying pretty well, and hopefully maintaining the course.

I'd worry with a ROG or Cotter we're back to finding new assistants and rebuilding the whole setup for the fourth time in as many years. That's just unsustainable.

Completely agree, continuity should be key - although I don't necessarily worry about whether ROG or Cotter would be automatically less inclined to work with pre-existing assistants or Schmidt. Maybe they would be - but also maybe not.

We've had the worlds longest case study of how when a coach leaves the wallabies job, we take a hit - and players are continually feeling like they're having to reapply for their standing in a squad, and learn completely new structures and systems that suddenly change over night.

The best candidate is the one who is willing to build on what Schmidt has put in place, and ideally work with him. This doesn't necessarily mean change nothing - no coach, even an incumbent - would be expected to roll out the same, identical approaches and philosophies year on year.

We need continuity, not our 9th fresh start.

 

[Braveheart81]

so I say they pick the best candidate for head coach first and then worry about assistants afterwards.

Agreed.

Whoever is appointed as the new head coach needs to be allowed to do the job and part of that is about hiring the right assistants. We're nowhere near the Wallabies being the "Joe Schmidt system" such that a new coach can or should come in and try and continue/replicate it.

 

[Major Tom]

Like anyone taking over leadership the best thing they can do is not change anything immediately. The new coach just needs to basically use the same things in place for the November tour and then feel free to change from there onwards. I'm not sure Cheika can do that. I would be looking at Macdonald or Cotter mainly. They seem the most likely to be able to work with Schmidt's game style. And then I'd look at Kiss to take over after the World Cup.

Completely agree, continuity should be key - although I don't necessarily worry about whether ROG or Cotter would be automatically less inclined to work with pre-existing assistants or Schmidt. Maybe they would be - but also maybe not.

We've had the worlds longest case study of how when a coach leaves the wallabies job, we take a hit - and players are continually feeling like they're having to reapply for their standing in a squad, and learn completely new structures and systems that suddenly change over night.

The best candidate is the one who is willing to build on what Schmidt has put in place, and ideally work with him. This doesn't necessarily mean change nothing - no coach, even an incumbent - would be expected to roll out the same, identical approaches and philosophies year on year.

We need continuity, not our 9th fresh start

 

[lvunisailosi]

does anyone know when the u20s start getting selected? wasn't sure where to ask

 

[Tomthumb]

Ronan O'Gara or Vern Cotter?

Its always one step forward and one step back with these blokes. Although, in Waugh's defense, at least this isn't a 'captains call'.

Yeah but O'Gara has no experience coaching a national team and only been a head coach at one club so experience isn't really there. And both Cotter's international stops weren't exactly great (especially Fiji)

Neither are as accomplished as Michael Cheika

 

[Derpus]

Yeah but O'Gara has no experience coaching a national team and only been a head coach at one club so experience isn't really there. And both Cotter's international stops weren't exactly great (especially Fiji)

Neither are as accomplished as Michael Cheika

Surely Cheika's last three years in charge of the Wallabies is enough to disqualify him?

 

[Tomthumb]

I think in the absence of a standout international candidate, you think about continuity. How can we keep the Schmidt infrastructure in place (assistants, high performance etc), while just changing the bloke at the top?

That's where the local candidates come in. None of them are inspiring but their strength is the ability to take the controls of a plane that's flying pretty well, and hopefully maintaining the course.

I'd worry with a ROG or Cotter we're back to finding new assistants and rebuilding the whole setup for the fourth time in as many years. That's just unsustainable.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me

Would the coach have to call Schmidt every time he needs to make a decision? Would players actually listen to the coach if he's just essentially a Schmidt puppet

For me the coach has to be the coach. If Schmidt doesn't want to be the coach I don't think having him still looming over everything from another country is good for any coach coming in. The players need to know who's actually calling the shots

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely Cheika's last three years in charge of the Wallabies is enough to disqualify him?

His two years with Argentina are definitely the recent positive experience you'd cite as why he's a reasonable choice.

From the perspective of thinking we're appointing a coach to take us from the 2025 November internationals through to the end of the 2027 RWC, there are certainly worse options.

 

[JRugby2]

This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me

Would the coach have to call Schmidt every time he needs to make a decision? Would players actually listen to the coach if he's just essentially a Schmidt puppet

For me the coach has to be the coach. If Schmidt doesn't want to be the coach I don't think having him still looming over everything from another country is good for any coach coming in. The players need to know who's actually calling the shots

This specifically would be a disaster - though I doubt this would be the case with Schmidt. Doesn't come across as the overbearing type and would probably understand what his role is - advice and guidance. The new coach can still be the coach, as you say.

Another complete clean out would be counter productive - as we've seen with (nearly) every single coaching transition since McQueen.

 

[Derpus]

His two years with Argentina are definitely the recent positive experience you'd cite as why he's a reasonable choice.

From the perspective of thinking we're appointing a coach to take us from the 2025 November internationals through to the end of the 2027 RWC, there are certainly worse options.

Eddie Jones also had a pretty impressive post Wallabies career, including his last appointment with England...

 

[Tomthumb]

Surely Cheika's last three years in charge of the Wallabies is enough to disqualify him?

I wouldn't say so. I think he learned a lot from the ending last time and the fact he has continued to be successful after his last Wallabies stint shows that

It would also be a completely new playing group for him. Not saying he's a perfect candidate but he was hardly the only one at fault for the way things ended last time

 

[Tomthumb]

Eddie Jones also had a pretty impressive post Wallabies career, including his last appointment with England...

Eddie was sacked by England after it turned toxic. Everything players have said around Cheika the last few years has been positive

I understand we are all jaded by the Eddie 2.0 experience, but aren't the same guy

 

[Tomthumb]

This specifically would be a disaster - though I doubt this would be the case with Schmidt. Doesn't come across as the overbearing type and would probably understand what his role is - advice and guidance. The new coach can still be the coach, as you say.

Another complete clean out would be counter productive - as we've seen with (nearly) every single coaching transition since McQueen.

It's not so much Schmidt being opening overbearing, it's that everyone would still think he was running it regardless. I just feel it's an unfair position to put a coach in

Sounds like there will be a clean out regardless. Cron is off and probably Lord bucket hat too, so we are going to be filling a few positions I think

 

[KOB1987]

Wallabies 2025 Tests​

Wallabies v Fiji – Sunday, July 6 at McDonald Jones Stadium, Newcastle
British & Irish Lions Tour
Wallabies v British & Irish Lions – Saturday, July 19 at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane
Wallabies v British & Irish Lions – Saturday, July 26 at Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne
Wallabies v British & Irish Lions – Saturday, August 2 at Accor Stadium, Sydney
The Rugby Championship/Bledisloe Cup
Wallabies v South Africa – Saturday, August 16 at TBC
Wallabies v South Africa – Saturday, August 23 at TBC
Wallabies v Argentina – Saturday, September 6 at Queensland Country Bank Stadium, Townsville
Wallabies v Argentina – Saturday, September 13 at Allianz Stadium, Sydney
Wallabies v New Zealand – Saturday, September 27, Eden Park, Auckland
Wallabies v New Zealand – Saturday, October 4 at Optus Stadium, Perth
End of Year Tour
Wallabies v Japan – Saturday, October 25 at National Stadium, Tokyo
Autumn Nations Tour
Wallabies v England – Saturday, November 1 at Allianz Stadium, Twickenham
Wallabies v Italy – Saturday, November 8 at TBC
Wallabies v Ireland – Saturday, November 15 at Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Wallabies France – Saturday, November 22 at TBC

 

[JRugby2]

It's not so much Schmidt being opening overbearing, it's that everyone would still think he was running it regardless. I just feel it's an unfair position to put a coach in

Sounds like there will be a clean out regardless. Cron is off and probably Lord bucket hat too, so we are going to be filling a few positions I think

I don't see why this is an issue. Nor do I think it's an unfair position to be in. If he was a director of rugby - than maybe, but this isn't what is being reported as an option. It's a possible consultancy role, and if that's the case - the new coach would (should, devil would be in the detail of course) retain the final decision makers across all things team.

Knowing what we know about Schmidt - there is a great chance the only thing we'd ever here about his consultancy work is when it's first announced, and when his salary line item is included in the annual reports.

For clarity - I like Schmidt, but I think I'd hold this view no matter who the incumbent was (maybe except Eddie Jones) on the principle of wanting a smooth transition between coaching so that we don't start from scratch again, and repeat the same mistakes we've been making for 20 years.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Y'all ready for this?

Cheika meets with Rugby Australia amid Wallabies coaching speculation

There is rising speculation that the former Wallabies boss is among candidates to succeed New Zealander Joe Schmidt at the helm.

www.rnz.co.nz