Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Lindommer]

Kurtley's DEFINITELY better than Keiran Reid. Kieran Read, dunno.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I agree with all that. I just think Cheika will go with Beale. He'll want the second playmaker ability that Beale brings from fullback and he'll back his test experience to deliver the best outcome.

I could be entirely wrong but that's my prediction.

Likewise, Cheika could be wrong, but it's largely his decision. I highly doubt Johnson and O'Connor will be demanding that certain selection decisions are non negotiable.

There wouldn't be a test coach anywhere in the world who picks their squad and team entirely on form.

Yeah, reluctant as I am, I do agree with everything you've said.

 

[formerflanker]

I think he meant next year at the Reds. But yes if Kerevi went down this year he could slot in.

i did mean for the Reds.
But now you mention the Wallabies - yes to that too. Allows Beale to stay as a fullback option.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I readily concede your argument BH, but Banks has put in a very impressive last half of the season, and as someone here keeps telling us in the early parts of the season, that early season form means little and other players will rise to the top towards the end, then he is more deserving of the Wallabies No 15 spot than Beale.

What is it that Beale does that gets him selected ahead of Banks?

Banks is faster, bigger, and more deadly with ball in hand from my perspective.

Banks is a strong kicker and a much improved defender. How nice would it be to have a rock solid final defender?

People might say ball-play, or "play make", but is this actually true? Kurtley doesn't have a long-passing game, and when he is at his best in my opinion he is actually running the ball.

I would be at a loss to explain how Kurtley Beale is a better fullback than Tom Banks.

 

[Slim 293]

I know this isn't going to translate into the test team, but I just wanted to mention it since we're up against the Boks first up..............

The Brumbies had a clean sweep against all of the South African teams this year, and really bullied their forward packs.

 

[Rugrat]

I've not kept up with JOC (James O'Connor) happenings since he left OZ. What position has he been mostly playing and how's he gone up North? Is he still any good?

He has been playing inside centre for Sale last 2 seasons. Missed a lot of season 1 due to old injury and played fairly regularly in season 2. Flashes of good play but otherwise solid. Has put on a bit of bulk, great hands and pass can hit space and soft shoulder and offload. Quite a few try assists and a cracker with last pass to Fafe De Klerk try late in season. Can cover multiple positions in backline. That said to compare his season to others in the English comp he would not even get a look in for England squad.

 

[fatprop]

I agree with all that. I just think Cheika will go with Beale. He'll want the second playmaker ability that Beale brings from fullback and he'll back his test experience to deliver the best outcome.

I could be entirely wrong but that's my prediction.

Likewise, Cheika could be wrong, but it's largely his decision. I highly doubt Johnson and O'Connor will be demanding that certain selection decisions are non negotiable.

There wouldn't be a test coach anywhere in the world who picks their squad and team entirely on form.

It would be quite possible to consider the proposed and likely 9s (genia & white) as the primary playmakers with the 10 the secondary whose role will be pass it to Kerevi and back up

 

[Derpus]

Did you just compare Kurtley Beale to Keiran Reid ?

I really just meant a lot of test quality players often phone it in during super rugby and still step up at test no worries, Keiren Read being a classic example.

 

[BDA]

I'm interested in what JOC (James O'Connor) offers us. I haven't seen him play in a while but on paper he offers a lot. At 28, he's still in his prime physically. If he's focused and motivated I'd probably put him in a starting 15 ahead of some other players. He'd also be a great option to have on the bench given that he can cover 10 to 15.

 

[Ignoto]

I agree with all that. I just think Cheika will go with Beale. He'll want the second playmaker ability that Beale brings from fullback and he'll back his test experience to deliver the best outcome.

Beale constantly demonstrates at test level that he isn't a playmaker though. If anything, he inhibits those outside and around him with his insistence of grabbing and not running straight to draw defensive players.

I don't think we should consider Beale a play maker at all. However, if you think our backs will be given freedom to run in broken play and want an elusive runner at the back, then I think that's a different argument.

 

[Tex]

I'm disinclined to immediately reward someone like him over guys that have been grafting for lower wages in Oz.

By all means give him a fair shot, but he's not the form 10/12 in the squad and doesn't warrant a start unless there's a catastrophe of injuries to the men ahead of him in the list, or his form is undeniable.

I certainly don't want Cheika to fall into the trap of shoe-horning players into positions they might be able to play. Pick blokes who are the best in the spots and go from there.

Edit: re. JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[formerflanker]

My biggest worry re JOC (James O'Connor) is that his form for Sale is difficult to compare against other 12s who have been playing Super rugby.
I guess his past Wallaby form and current positive feedback is enough for the selectors to give him a crack at Test level before the RWC squad is announced.

 

[fatprop]

I'm disinclined to immediately reward someone like him over guys that have been grafting for lower wages in Oz.

By all means give him a fair shot, but he's not the form 10/12 in the squad and doesn't warrant a start unless there's a catastrophe of injuries to the men ahead of him in the list, or his form is undeniable.

I certainly don't want Cheika to fall into the trap of shoe-horning players into positions they might be able to play. Pick blokes who are the best in the spots and go from there.

Edit: re. JOC (James O'Connor)

If they are a clearly better option, I will live with an upgrade, but they have to be clearly better

 

[KOB1987]

He won't be going to RSA, he will be playing club rugby to show his worth. This is the correct approach IMO and have no problems with him spend a few days at camp Wallaby in the interim.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...d/news-story/d573147a6f89f9fa72e55aaadafede18

 

[Derpus]

Paywalled

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale constantly demonstrates at test level that he isn't a playmaker though. If anything, he inhibits those outside and around him with his insistence of grabbing and not running straight to draw defensive players.

I don't think we should consider Beale a play maker at all. However, if you think our backs will be given freedom to run in broken play and want an elusive runner at the back, then I think that's a different argument.

I don't think this is true. I agree you don't want him playing 10 and being first receiver the vast majority of the time, particularly at this stage of his career where he has not been playing there regularly.

He is one of the best we have at identifying opportunities and picking the times to get the ball as first receiver or dictating which direction the play goes.

Anyway, we'll see what happens in a couple of weeks when the first test team is announced.

I certainly don't want Cheika to fall into the trap of shoe-horning players into positions they might be able to play. Pick blokes who are the best in the spots and go from there.

Edit: re. JOC (James O'Connor)

I think the attraction is the versatility of having the last couple of backs in the squad being able to cover a number of positions allowing you to pick more specialists that you would use as starters and backups to the starter.

As I said yesterday (I think), my take is that if Lilo is picked as the backup 10, JOC (James O'Connor) becomes an interesting option to push To'omua out of the squad and offer more versatility.

 

[fatprop]

I don't think this is true. I agree you don't want him playing 10 and being first receiver the vast majority of the time, particularly at this stage of his career where he has not been playing there regularly.

He is one of the best we have at identifying opportunities and picking the times to get the ball as first receiver or dictating which direction the play goes.

Anyway, we'll see what happens in a couple of weeks when the first test team is announced.



I think the attraction is the versatility of having the last couple of backs in the squad being able to cover a number of positions allowing you to pick more specialists that you would use as starters and backups to the starter.

As I said yesterday (I think), my take is that if Lilo is picked as the backup 10, JOC (James O'Connor) becomes an interesting option to push To'omua out of the squad and offer more versatility.

Beale's effective role as second playmaker at the Tahs has never really worked at test level

 

[KOB1987]

Paywalled

He won’t be parachuted into the Wallabies squad flying out on Sunday for the July 20 Test against South Africa in Johannesburg and he’ll play club rugby first. He’s already been targeted with poisonous darts on Twitter yet even one-time bad boys are owed another chance every few years.
That’s the tack of new Rugby Australia director of rugby Scott Johnson because his research into O’Connor’s changed ways at Sale was thorough before negotiations for a two-year deal began.

Edit: Having read that again, it doesn't say he won't be going to RSA, only that he'll need to show himself in club rugby first. That's the way I'm now interpreting it anyway.

 

[formerflanker]

He won’t be parachuted into the Wallabies squad flying out on Sunday for the July 20 Test against South Africa in Johannesburg and he’ll play club rugby first. He’s already been targeted with poisonous darts on Twitter yet even one-time bad boys are owed another chance every few years.
That’s the tack of new Rugby Australia director of rugby Scott Johnson because his research into O’Connor’s changed ways at Sale was thorough before negotiations for a two-year deal began.

Edit: Having read that again, it doesn't say he won't be going to RSA, only that he'll need to show himself in club rugby first. That's the way I'm now interpreting it anyway.

Don't tell me the sewer of Twitter is a source of news for Jim Tucker?

 

[Derpus]

As if Beale isn't a playmaker?

He has a load of deficiencies and i don't rate him at first receiver. But the one thing the bloke can do is create opportunities.