Wallabies 2012 Championship Squad

[Garry Owen]

The reality of the selection discussions is that most of the discussions are centering around lock and outside centre. These two positions are clearly our weakest and there are no obvious choices for the positions.

The fact that there aren't any obvious choices for the positions essentially makes it a bit of a coin toss between several contenders. Whilst everyone has their own opinions, the reality is that it's not that easy to separate Simmons, Timani, Douglas and Pyle for the second lock position and there are a multitude of options at 13 including Horne, Fainga'a, Tapuai (who is only just coming back from injury) or moving the backline around and putting McCabe or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there.

I don't think anyone is really too out of line with their preference including Robbie Deans and the Australian selectors. There just isn't an obvious right answer.

The wisdom of Dwyer's words are underlined by our predicament

"You can’t win without good players, but you can lose with them. This is where the coach comes in."

All of these players mentioned could perform above their Super form, if in a team surrounded by the best players in our country, and supported by quality coaching which includes a firm game plan. Example: What could someone like Jake White get out of these players, even those that we aren't sure deserve there spot in the squad? I'm sure that under Jake, a player like Timani would have had it known to him that he was under pressure to hold his position, based on his previous test performances, and given guidance on what needed to improve, and how to go about it.

What we all must understand, is that in all likelihood, these players are mystified as we are under the Deans coaching system. And the frustration we feel in the selections may be due to the fact that we see little chance of beating NZ in the near future.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The reality of the selection discussions is that most of the discussions are centering around lock and outside centre. These two positions are clearly our weakest and there are no obvious choices for the positions.

The fact that there aren't any obvious choices for the positions essentially makes it a bit of a coin toss between several contenders. Whilst everyone has their own opinions, the reality is that it's not that easy to separate Simmons, Timani, Douglas and Pyle for the second lock position and there are a multitude of options at 13 including Horne, Fainga'a, Tapuai (who is only just coming back from injury) or moving the backline around and putting McCabe or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there.

I don't think anyone is really too out of line with their preference including Robbie Deans and the Australian selectors. There just isn't an obvious right answer.

It may be a coin toss between simmons & pyle and I may barely allow douglas into that equation but. To say timani is of the same ilk is a joke.
In regards to centre, throwing out a little experiment out there O'Connor to 13 he is got skill, runs hard and can tackle.
could the new answer to our prayers be James O'Connor + no 13 jersey = Southern Hemisphere Brian O'Driscoll.
Just something interesting to try if we get an easy game sometime, I think it could work with Barnes/Harris/Lelifiano inside him

 

[Braveheart81]

I rate Pyle and think he's a really hard worker but I think he's far from being an obvious choice on par with Simmons. He doesn't have the same physicality that some of the others have. He could easily get monstered by the Springbok and All Black locks. How will his scrummaging stand up against those two teams? Simmons as well doesn't yet have any real standout test performances to his name. He goes missing in super rugby on a regular basis. I would suggest that he is nowhere near cementing himself as the number three lock in the country (behind the injured Horwill and Sharpe). This is presumably why Timani has been trialled.

Our backline issues are also difficult to fix. O'Connor has been suggested by plenty of people as an option at either 12 or 13 but he is still injured. He hasn't played much rugby at all in the second half of the season and won't necessarily be available at the start of the Rugby Championship. In my opinion this makes it impossible to try him in a new position this season (until maybe the EOYT). I would suggest that at best he will either get a shot on the wing or bench for the Wallabies when he regains fitness.

 

[Viking]

It may be a coin toss between simmons & pyle and I may barely allow douglas into that equation but. To say timani is of the same ilk is a joke.

Agreed. All our locks are probably below test level. but im still confused as to how Timani got the call up for Wales ahead of so many other options.

 

[barbarian]

Just as a rough guide to the locks, here are the stats from the weekend's round, which is a good general indicator of how they are going. Just taking tackle and run stats.

I will put them in a rough rank order of who I think has the most impressive numbers:

1. Adam Wallace-Harrison - 20 tackles/0 missed, 12 runs
2. Caderyn Neville - 14 tackles/1 missed, 10 runs
3. Sitaleki Timani - 13 tackles/1 missed, 7 runs
4. Kane Douglas - 9 tackles/0 missed, 6 runs
5. Hugh Pyle - 6 tackles/0 missed, 8 runs
6. Nathan Sharpe - 6 tackles/2 missed, 10 runs
7. Sam Carter - 12 tackles/3 missed, 1 run
8. Scott Fardy - 13 tackles/5 missed, 5 runs
9. Rob Simmons - 7 tackles/1 missed, 3 runs

Now obviously you could argue different rankings, especially from 5-9. There isn't much difference in those numbers.

However AWH is certainly a standout in terms of workrate, and has been the last three weeks. He has certainly played himself into a squad spot if you ask me.

.

 

[Braveheart81]

As several people have pointed out, Simmons has a bad habit of being an absolute passenger every now and again. When we don't have a standout player, we're probably going to have to settle for consistency and that doesn't seem to be something that Simmons offers.

 

[vidiot]

Just as a rough guide to the locks, here are the stats from the weekend's round

Nice stats barbar. Simmons was near-invisible on the weekend and given a fairly early break. AWH just kept popping up. Can you guys put him on the podcast more often? Brings out his best!

 

[Braveheart81]

If you put him on the podcast again, you should call the episode Where's Wallace?

You should also tell him to add some red stripes to his white headtape and then he will really look the part.

 

[Slim 293]

Just as a rough guide to the locks, here are the stats from the weekend's round, which is a good general indicator of how they are going. Just taking tackle and run stats.

I will put them in a rough rank order of who I think has the most impressive numbers:

1. Adam Wallace-Harrison - 20 tackles/0 missed, 12 runs
2. Caderyn Neville - 14 tackles/1 missed, 10 runs
3. Sitaleki Timani - 13 tackles/1 missed, 7 runs
4. Kane Douglas - 9 tackles/0 missed, 6 runs
5. Hugh Pyle - 6 tackles/0 missed, 8 runs
6. Nathan Sharpe - 6 tackles/2 missed, 10 runs
7. Sam Carter - 12 tackles/3 missed, 1 run
8. Scott Fardy - 13 tackles/5 missed, 5 runs
9. Rob Simmons - 7 tackles/1 missed, 3 runs

Now obviously you could argue different rankings, especially from 5-9. There isn't much difference in those numbers.

However AWH is certainly a standout in terms of workrate, and has been the last three weeks. He has certainly played himself into a squad spot if you ask me.

.

I don't think you can use one game as a general indicator, particularly in the case of the Brumbies' players who put on their worst performance for the year.

For instance, the week before against the Tahs:

Scott Fardy 24 tackes/0 missed, 5 runs

Fardy is also up there for lineouts won and pilfers at the end of the regular season.

 

[Bowside]

If you are picking on form the locks would be AWH and Sharpe. Behind them I would have Pyle, Neville, Douglas and Simmons. And fardy too.

Deans will pick Timani and Simmons....

 

[Viking]

yeh those stats really dont make Fardy look good when compared to his past performances.

but honestly im more worried about our backline attack then our lock choices.

 

[Slim 293]

However, I see Fardy as more of a 6 anyways.

Aside from a high workrate, and being good in the lineout he's a nuisance at the breakdown and has picked up a lot of pilfers (and penalties for players holding on) in recent games.......

 

[barbarian]

I don't think you can use one game as a general indicator, particularly in the case of the Brumbies' players who put on their worst performance for the year.

For instance, the week before against the Tahs:

Scott Fardy 24 tackes/0 missed, 5 runs

Fardy is also up there for lineouts won and pilfers at the end of the regular season.

Yeah that's probably fair enough.

Looking at Fardy's stats from game to game, he generally averages about 10 tackles made with one or two misses.

The numbers are rarely outstanding but always solid. I don't know if he is Wallaby material but as I said before probably deserves to be in the training squad.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

The only consistent opinion seems to be that most people think Timani offers nothing.

I don't necessarily think he's the best choice but I still refute the assertion that he is rubbish. His ball running and ability to offload are arguably better than the other locks and his workrate being really low doesn't seem to be supported by the stats.

I would like to see Pyle or Douglas given a chance but it would seem hard to debut them in the next test against the ABs. Maybe one of them could come off the bench in that game or start against Argentina.

 

[Scott Allen]

Statistics are only a very minor part of the equation in working out how any player is going, particularly when they are for one game only and include no breakdown statistics (which are extremely relevant for forwards).

Statistics also don't show how effective the involvements were or the work off the ball.

Whilst AWH has been playing well I can't see Deans picking him. I expect he'll go with Sharpe, Simmons and Timani in the 30 (based on past selections).

I thought Douglas looked very good last week against the Reds and definitely think Pyle would be a good option.

 

[Braveheart81]

Scott: Do you think there could be any credence to the suggestion that when playing for the Wallabies, Timani was instructed to play wider due to his ability to offload?

Your analysis mentions that you see this as the role for a number 6 in the modern game, but if Timani was viewed as the guy most likely to bend the line and get an offload away, do you think he could have been told to play wide?

 

[Joe Blow]

Surely AWH would be a good lock to have on board until Horwill returns.
Maybe beyond as Sharpie will definitely bow out after TRC.
It is a position where some experience is needed pretty much all of the time and there needs to be some back-up if Horwill goes down again....god forbid.
He slots into the Reds pack in place of Horwill very well.

But as most have stated, Deans probably will not pick him.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

i'm obviously a big pyle fan and reckon he should be in the top 4 locks, but I am increasingly impressed with Neville over the past few games. he is large, has an excellent work rate, gets past the gain line consistently with ball in hand and can tackle. a bit more refinement and I say that guy is on his way to becoming number 3 behind sharpe and horwill.

Simmons can play an amazing game and then dissappear into the abyss the next game (or the next half). Just don't think he has enough grunt nor enough go forward. Horwill and Sharpe until Sharpe retires and then look at Pyle, Neville, Fardy, Simmons etc but I agree Fardy seems more of a 6 option to me.

 

[Scoey]

He returned to the bench against the Hurricanes but didn't see any gametime and was on the bench against the Tahs', dont think he got on though there either. He's a long shot at a gold jersey right now but no harm in picking him in the squad.

Taps got about 5 mins in the Tahs game.

All this talk on Locks I think demonstrates one thing. It is very hard to quantify what makes a good lock. They are the eternal "middle child" of a Rugby team. Does anyone care to rank qualities of a "good" lock in order?

I haven't thought about this at all, so it's probably worth saying that these are in no particular order of preference.

1. Lineout ability
2. Scrummaging ability
3. Breakdown work
4. Defence (Tackles made/missed)
5. Ball running ability
6. General fitness
etc.

I say this because, many will have different qualities that they rate highly in thier locks, and will probably make it clearer why their preferred 4/5 combo's are who they are.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lineout ability in particular interacts with the rest of the forward pack. Increasingly we see the 6, 8 and 7 used as lineout jumpers which means the locks are often lifters. If you have good backrow lineout jumpers, the ability of the locks in the lineout becomes less important.