Wales vs Australia, 5 November 2016, (1:30am 6 November AEDT) @ Millenium Stadium

[Viking]

Why do people keep rating Timani as a genuine lineout option?

Surely he's fine for a 4th option. Having Coleman, Arnold and Fardy there I think are all solid options.

 

[wamberal]

Why do people keep rating Timani as a genuine lineout option?

Maybe they are comparing him with Skelton?

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe they are comparing him with Skelton?

They've been used a similar amount in Super Rugby.

I'd rate Timani as only marginally better. Either of them are probably the fourth lineout choice in any pack they play in.

 

[PeterK]

Sean McMahon is a better lineout option than Timani.

Timani is much better than he was because his handling has improved and started being used as an option in 2016 for the Rebels but he is still not a strong lineout option.

The only thing that makes him seem like a decent option is that he is tall.

Sean McMahon was used more at the rebels because he was marking other no 7's. So he was up against Hooper, Pocock , Todd, Hodgson and so on. Timani at lock was up against Simmons, Whitelock, Coleman etc so obviously outmatched. Even then I saw him win ball against locks. Never saw McMahon do it.

I have no doubt Timani is a better option jumping against small backrowers than McMahon is.

 

[PeterK]

Fair enough, I reckon your definition of genuine in this context is a bit different to mine though.

fair enough.

Then say 3 genuine lineout options in Coleman, Arnold, Fardy and a solid 4th option in Timani.

 

[PeterK]

They've been used a similar amount in Super Rugby.

I'd rate Timani as only marginally better. Either of them are probably the fourth lineout choice in any pack they play in.

Agree except if the wallabies play Pooper then he would be the 3rd option.

Against locks like Simmons, Whitelock, Etzebeth then yes Timani and Skelton rate the same. However Skelton is a lock whilst Timani is a backrower.

 

[Brumby Runner]

CLL is the possibility if his health returns. He is a lot better goal kicker than Foley. Back in 2012 he was an excellent playmaker when To'omua was injured, perhaps he can return to that. I would love to see it.

I take the inference re the 2 houses and the brumbies not was an assumptions that I am a Reds supporter and the other is a tahs one.

To make sure no one thinks I am pushing a state based agenda I am a tahs supporter.
Just as far as the wallabies are concerned I have zero state allegiances one way or the other, I just want whats best for the team.

Perhaps despite this () I still find your posts to be exceptionally well balanced and argued. Moreso, probably, because your thoughts on the Wallabies mostly align with my own.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sean McMahon was used more at the rebels because he was marking other no 7's. So he was up against Hooper, Pocock , Todd, Hodgson and so on. Timani at lock was up against Simmons, Whitelock, Coleman etc so obviously outmatched. Even then I saw him win ball against locks. Never saw McMahon do it.

I have no doubt Timani is a better option jumping against small backrowers than McMahon is.

This is not correct. McMahon is generally up against the third lineout option in the opposition team because that is how they are being used.

No opposition team is marking McMahon with a non-jumping 7 and if they are they are stupid because he is used pretty frequently by the Rebels.

In most of the Rebels starting teams in 2016, in a full lineout Luke Jones is their number one jumper, Adam Thomson two, Sean McMahon three and Timani four.

However Skelton is a lock whilst Timani is a backrower.

They were both used at lock in 2016 Super Rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The only thing that makes him seem like a decent option is that he is tall.

not a bad start

 

[Braveheart81]

not a bad start

You can say the same about Skelton and as we know it is a complete misnomer.

Timani might be 7cm taller than McMahon but I think McMahon is a substantially better lineout option.

Neither of them are great lineout options for a number 8 though.

 

[Brumby Runner]

They've been used a similar amount in Super Rugby.

I'd rate Timani as only marginally better. Either of them are probably the fourth lineout choice in any pack they play in.

Which is exactly why Big Will should not play lock for the Wallabies. Whenever was it satisfactory for one of the locks to be rated as the fourth jumper? Would need the likes of Kaino and Read playing at 6 and 8.

 

[Braveheart81]

Which is exactly why Big Will should not play lock for the Wallabies. Whenever was it satisfactory for one of the locks to be rated as the fourth jumper? Would need the likes of Kaino and Read playing at 6 and 8.

I agree. It creates a substantial weakness.

That's going to be the way it is for his entire career though. His playing weight is always going to be over 130kg.

For Skelton to be selected he needs to contributing substantially better around the park in non-lineout areas than the alternatives. He will never be a complete player.

Thankfully Coleman and Arnold are getting somewhere towards being the complete package that we need.

 

[PeterK]

They were both used at lock in 2016 Super Rugby.

So?

That does not make Timani a genuine lock.

McGahan recruited a very unbalanced squad with too many backrowers and not enough locks.

It is clear Timani is a 6 or a 8 not a lock.

That has been shown in the wallabies.

I agree neither McMahon or Timani are great options at 8 as a 4th lineout option.
Personally Timani has more growth potential to eventually be a good lineout one.
Skelton is poor because he gets off the ground so slowly thus giving time for jumpers to get ahead of him.
Timani had poor hands but his handling has improved a lot. Bryne is probably helping there as well.
McMahon is not going to grow taller nor get longer arms, he is as good as he is going to be.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

For that to have a chance of happening then Fardy and Timani must be the 6 and 8 for lineouts so 4 genuine lineout options are there.

Then Pocock the 7 for going hard at the breakdown, Fardy and Timani hit the breakdown hard as well.

Hooper the odd one out in being ineffective at lineouts and really tries hard at breakdowns but just doesn't make it, so he has to be on the bench.

Agree with all of that. Fardy is excellent at the breakdown and in the air. He has to play for mine. I like Timani in the lineup because he's got the beginnings of that dirty yards type of eight that I like (and we need) in him.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Wales team

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps)
14. Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps)
12. Jamie Roberts (Harlequins) (83 Caps)
11. George North (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps)
9. Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
3. Samson Lee (Scarlets) (26 Caps)
4. Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps)
5. Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps)
6. Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps)
8. Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps)

REPLACEMENTS:
16. Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps)
17. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
18. Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps)
19. Cory Hill (Newport Gwent Dragons) (UNCAPPED)
20. James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps)
22. Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
23. Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps)

 

[Joe Blow]

A lot of caps in that starting side with a couple of newbies on the bench.
Looks pretty strong.

 

[Pfitzy]

A lot of caps in that starting side with a couple of newbies on the bench.
Looks pretty strong.

Its the combinations in the backline that make me think Cheika won't put Folau at 13 this week.

Pack the same as last except Fardy for Mumm

Backline will probably be the same, though surely Speight's defence is on limited time.

 

[PeterK]

A lot of caps in that starting side with a couple of newbies on the bench.
Looks pretty strong.

Missing their best attacking back in Liam Williams, their lineout caller A W Jones, their normal captain Warburton, and big no 8 Faletau so as strong as they could, Wallabies without Genia, Kerevi, and Mumm.

As a matter of interest this is their RWC team we played last

Gareth Anscombe; Alex Cuthbert, George North, Jamie Roberts, Liam Williams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Paul James, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.
Replacements: Ken Owens , Aaron Jarvis, Tomas Francis, Ross Moriarty, Jake Ball, Rhys Priestland , Lloyd Williams, James Hook

 

[Brumby Runner]

Wales should be underestimated at peril. That is a very handy backline, better than the RWC lineup. And in case anyone has forgotten, Wales looked better against the ABs in at least one test this year than have the Wallabies. They moved the ball wide and really showed quite a bit in attack.

This has all the hallmarks of a very evenly fought battle. If it comes down to the quality of backline play, then I am more than a little afraid they might have the wood on the Wallabies.

 

[D-Box]

WALLABIES STARTING TEAM

1. Scott Sio

2. Stephen Moore (c)

3. Sekope Kepu

4. Rory Arnold

5. Adam Coleman

6. David Pocock

7. Michael Hooper

8. Lopeti Timani

9. Nick Phipps

10. Bernard Foley

11. Henry Speight

12. Reece Hodge

13. Tevita Kuridrani

14. Dane Haylett-Petty

15. Israel Folau

RESERVES

16. Tolu Latu*

17. James Slipper

18. Allan Ala'alatoa

19. Rob Simmons

20. Scott Fardy

21. Nick Frisby

22. Quade Cooper

23. Sefa Naivalu

More at http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/11/03/08/41/wallabies-wales-team-announcement


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