Too much youth over experience?

[waratahjesus]

So if Knuckles was "awful" with a 64% win rate, what does that make Robbie '56.5%' Deans ?

I think you might find that Knuckles had a much higher proportion of easybeat opposition teams than Deans has had.

Deans also got us wins in England, France and South Africa.

when the f did we win under deans in south africa?
Knuckles inhereted a team and didnt have half the political backing of deans, deans has had a free reign to pick his assistants and wider team and do what he wishes, that means the results should reflect on who he is as a man and coach, so far, he isnt much, as was mentioned above, the step up from club to international rugby is just to much for some people to take, maybe deans is one of those people.

 

[mark_s]

when the f did we win under deans in south africa?

2008, the win (in durban I think) gave us the MAndela cup (which we handed back tothe boks in Perth this year).

 

[Scotty]

I'm a bit with TahJ here. Connolly was always on a hiding to nothing that close to a world cup. He couldn't exactly try and re-invent their play with about 18 months of prep, could he? What he could do was try and improve the set piece and hope the backs more or less took care of themselves. Now, despite the loss to England in the QF, he and Foley did indeed improve the set piece, and started off the process of improving our scrum play, which has been continued in the last few years to be now one of international standard. We have to remember what Eddie Jones (a former forward at that) had done to our set piece.

Deans has had a lot more support and time than Connolly ever did to mould the team to his plan/structure. So far it isn't working, but we would be stupid to change coaches now. If Deans' grand plans come to fruition, then I expect we will see a marked improvement in next years 3N, and the year after that we should be peaking. Of course the players also have to back him up.

So far, despite taking us to the RWC final in 03, I'd rate Jones our worst coach of the professional era. He started the cancer in our forward play, something we still have to battle the referees about.

 

[Scarfman]

So, in itself, I'm not really worried that we have so many players on tour in the 19, 20 and 21 year group. They will probably get their heads shoved up their arses in the mid-week games, as our Oz A team did about 3 years ago IIRR, but that will be neither here nor there.

I still maintain the Ospreys loss is the worst in Australian rugby history and am livid that we basically just shrugged and accepted that result.

What naza said. As far as I'm aware, it's Australia - the Wallabies - that will be playing the mid-week games, not Oz A. And I do care. A lot. If we win the grand slam (which I reckon is about a 15% chance) it will have a black mark on it if we lose a mid-week game.

 

[Scotty]

And in another shock, I'm backing (some of) Naza's comments regarding Giteau. He is without doubt the most highly overrated player in the Wallabies today, and his poor form and absolute inability to control games this year probably cost us the first two games vs the All Blacks (he of course wasn't the only culprit, but if he thinks he is a leader then he damn well better start showing it).

 

[Scarfman]

So far, despite taking us to the RWC final in 03, I'd rate Jones our worst coach of the professional era. He started the cancer in our forward play, something we still have to battle the referees about.

Partly true only. Eddie is also the individual singly most responsible for Australia's structured backline play, which many of us are looking back fondly on.

 

[Spook]

So, in itself, I'm not really worried that we have so many players on tour in the 19, 20 and 21 year group. They will probably get their heads shoved up their arses in the mid-week games, as our Oz A team did about 3 years ago IIRR, but that will be neither here nor there.

I still maintain the Ospreys loss is the worst in Australian rugby history and am livid that we basically just shrugged and accepted that result.

What naza said. As far as I'm aware, it's Australia - the Wallabies - that will be playing the mid-week games, not Oz A. And I do care. A lot. If we win the grand slam (which I reckon is about a 15% chance) it will have a black mark on it if we lose a mid-week game.

Gerrard at fly half :

 

[Spook]

I agree with Gits being shite this year but I've not been impressed with Barnes either. The amount of poor passes he has thrown (especially the NZ one) haven't helped. Gits did pretty well on the EOYT when Barnes wasn't around...because the forwards got stuck in.

 

[Scotty]

Barnes has been up and down too, even in the first half of our only 3N win his passing was poor, however Gits has fallen apart whenever Barnes hasn't been on the field. Not exactly what you want from your 'backline leader', and a good reason he doesn't have a c or vc behind his name.

 

[fatprop]

Every time Kafer highlighted the Wallabies doing things right in the backline, Barnes was in there.

Whether it was throwing the money ball, being direct or stepping back to create depth.

 

[cheezel]

I'd prefer Gits than Barnes as VC only because of the fact that Barnes is constantly injured. What's the point of having a Vice Captain who only plays 50% of the time. I don't think Gits is overrated, he just hasn't played to how we know he can.

 

[Scotty]

Every time Kafer highlighted the Wallabies doing things right in the backline, Barnes was in there.

Whether it was throwing the money ball, being direct or stepping back to create depth.

So Kafer has highlighted maybe 4 good things with the backline and Barnes has been there. Is this the basis for your argument to conclude he has played well? :nta:

He has had just as many poor moments as good moments. About 5 move breaking passes in the first half in Brisbane are case in point.

 

[fatprop]

Every time Kafer highlighted the Wallabies doing things right in the backline, Barnes was in there.

Whether it was throwing the money ball, being direct or stepping back to create depth.

So Kafer has highlighted maybe 4 good things with the backline and Barnes has been there. Is this the basis for your argument to conclude he has played well? :nta:

He has had just as many poor moments as good moments. About 5 move breaking passes in the first half in Brisbane are case in point.

He wasn't in any way perfect, I was actually very surprised throughout the season how often he was highlighted

 

[mark_s]

I don't think Giteau has been given enough credit for his performance in the 2nd half V the boks at Perth. Yes it was after the horse had bolted and the boks had probably clocked off, but I thought Giteau lead our fight back there, took control of our play and was generally an authoritive figure on the field.

If he played like that regularly, particularly when the game was still in the balance, he would not only be wearing the 10 jersery but would likely have the vc (or possibly even the c) next to his name. He hasn't so he doesn't.

 

[Scotty]

mark,

I think you are right he was good in that half. Sort of highlights my point though, doesn't it - he clearly has the ability, but if he isn't putting his hand up week in week out, he doesn't deserve a guarantee starting spot, let alone a c or vc next to his name.

 

[mark_s]

I absolutely agree Scotty, thats why I posted the above

 

[waratahjesus]

i dont think the captancy issue with gits should even rate a mention, guy is supposed to be running our backline, plus he has the goal kicking duties, he doesnt need it at all.

barnes has proved this year that he is far and away a better backline general than gits, gits needs to be able to play selfish at times and attack lines, thats why he is so good at 12, he doesnt need to be worrying about getting the people around him into position and calling plays, he is a great cog, but he shouldnt be turning the key to start the machine.

 

[Scarfman]

Speaking of Gits and goalkicking, the bloke should only be kicking them from his good side. A right-footer should take the ones from over there, I reckon he only hits 50%.

 

[Spook]

Barnes has been up and down too, even in the first half of our only 3N win his passing was poor, however Gits has fallen apart whenever Barnes hasn't been on the field. Not exactly what you want from your 'backline leader', and a good reason he doesn't have a c or vc behind his name.

Scotty, not against Barnes becoming VC at all - I think it's a good move. However, Barnes has been spoken about as the next coming but his performances have been patchy. If he's going to play 10, what I really want from him is to be pin point accurate with his kicking. I think in BrisVegas, Giteau was extremely dangerous at 12 in the second half and took the correct option more often that not - some fantastic grubbers that gave us field position. I worked well that night.

Finally, Giteau (or Barnes) taking the can for our latest performance against the ABs is grossly unfair given the pounding we received up front and at the breakdown. I have noted before that Barnes was at 10 for much of that and nothing improved.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think in BrisVegas, Giteau was extremely dangerous at 12 in the second half and took the correct option more often that not - some fantastic grubbers that gave us field position. I worked well that night.

AHA! Finally we understand why you love the Brumbies so much Spook. Or should I say "Matt"?!!!