The Wallabies Thread

[Viking]

I think your judgement is clouded by the recent tour. For confirmation you only need to browse the 3-2-1 threads from August to October, also remember he was runner up to Folau for the players' player despite not playing in June or last year's EOYT.

You are probably right. Although we were smashed in the first half of Bled 1. So he only had half a good game there. Followed by a great second Bled. Then he was okay without being outstanding the rest.

Followed by some poor performances once at fullback. I also have to admit I probably have a bit of bias towards him when he gave up the chase for the ball going into touch (that didn't) and led to the England try. That is just poor poor dedication.

It's a mixed bag. It's surprising he is performing better at 12. At this stage I think the wallabies would be better served with either Hodge or Hunt at 12 and Beale as an impact player from the bench who can also cover 12,15, and wing.

 

[Viking]

My two most hated phrases on this site:

1. 'If (TEAM X) was the All Blacks, they would have beaten us by 60'

2. 'If (PLAYER X) was Quade, he'd be thrashed on this forum.'

It's just lazy analysis.

Fair call. But it is true both Beale and Cooper have proven to be erratic decision makers or shown ill disciple at key moments.

Eg. Beale 2 yellow cards, deciding to stop running for the ball going into touch that led to a try.

It's kind of ironic, because from what we see on the rugby field (taking away off-field behaviour), JOC (James O'Connor) smokes them both for consistency and dedication (again on-field only)... when's he's not at flyhalf at least

 

[KOB1987]

I'm with Barbarian on this, I tend to take an optimistic view.

The thing that is irking me right now is the naysayers, and there have been at least three that I have seen, coming out and saying that we only beat a 'second string' All Blacks in Brisbane. WTF? If the team selected is the best available then it's not second string, simple as that. Injuries are a fact of life in sport, it happens to us all the time. In fact if people are going to insist on that view then those same people also need to recognise that we were with out Slipper, Coleman, Arnold, Rodda, Dempsey, Pocock, Folau and Naivalu (that I can think of). That makes our side far more second string than the All Blacks were in October.

The one thing I will concur with is the defensive issues. I think that is our massive Achilles heal. Grey needs to either go or radically change his strategy. He is expendable.

Our other big problem is that nationally we have only a few home grown fly halfs capable of playing at soup level, let alone at test level. It's unfair to bag Foley for being picked for being the best available, and Cheika for having to keep selecting him, when there are literally no other viable options. All this comes down to neglect at grass roots level.

There are other problems, but for mine those are the two biggest. Fix the first one and we can be competitive and consistent. Fix the second one (unlikely before the RWC) and we can be world beaters.

 

[Silverado]

My two most hated phrases on this site:

1. 'If (TEAM X) was the All Blacks, they would have beaten us by 60'

2. 'If (PLAYER X) was Quade, he'd be thrashed on this forum.'

It's just lazy analysis.

Or it's all Hoopers fault for being captain


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[Viking]

I'm with Barbarian on this, I tend to take an optimistic view.

The thing that is irking me right now is the naysayers, and there have been at least three that I have seen, coming out and saying that we only beat a 'second string' All Blacks in Brisbane. WTF? If the team selected is the best available then it's not second string, simple as that. Injuries are a fact of life in sport, it happens to us all the time. In fact if people are going to insist on that view then those same people also need to recognise that we were with out Slipper, Coleman, Arnold, Rodda, Dempsey, Pocock, Folau and Naivalu (that I can think of). That makes our side far more second string than the All Blacks were in October.

The one thing I will concur with is the defensive issues. I think that is our massive Achilles heal. Grey needs to either go or radically change his strategy. He is expendable.

Our other big problem is that nationally we have only a few home grown fly halfs capable of playing at soup level, let alone at test level. It's unfair to bag Foley for being picked for being the best available, and Cheika for having to keep selecting him, when there are literally no other viable options. All this comes down to neglect at grass roots level.

There are other problems, but for mine those are the two biggest. Fix the first one and we can be competitive and consistent. Fix the second one (unlikely before the RWC) and we can be world beaters.

Foley's only real issue is his kicking (medium & long, short kicking is fine), and goal kicking obviously.

On the defence, I agree the structural defensive system is a mess. But instead of attacking Grey, I actually take the stance that he is trying to work his best with what he has.

There is a reason there is so much shifting around, and the big one is that we have too many poor defenders in the line.

Just look back at the RWC, we defended pretty well most tournament, Gits at 12 over Beale or Kerevi makes a huge difference.

The players defensive abilities are at least dictating the poor defensive structures.

 

[KOB1987]

Foley's only real issue is his kicking (medium & long, short kicking is fine), and goal kicking obviously.

On the defence, I agree the structural defensive system is a mess. But instead of attacking Grey, I actually take the stance that he is trying to work his best with what he has.

There is a reason there is so much shifting around, and the big one is that we have too many poor defenders in the line.

Just look back at the RWC, we defended pretty well most tournament, Gits at 12 over Beale or Kerevi makes a huge difference.

The players defensive abilities are at least dictating the poor defensive structures.

I do tend to agree with you that Grey is trying to work with what he has, but I think it is being overcomplicated and hard to adapt when we get thrown a curve ball such as having to play 50 minutes with 14 men. That's why I say he should be given the opportunity to make some changes, but it's that or go.

 

[Tomikin]

I know this is Wallabies onward and upwards but that try on the weekend we're Blake Enever burned Rob Simmons to try an ankle tap.. Either Rob Simmons is the slowest person since Tom Carter or he didn't even try.. I really respected Blake's effort.. They all should chase like that.. Unlikely to get there but you have to try or you may look like a goose ala Beale v England..

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[KOB1987]

I know this is Wallabies onward and upwards but that try on the weekend we're Blake Enever burned Rob Simmons to try an ankle tap.. Either Rob Simmons is the slowest person since Tom Carter or he didn't even try.. I really respected Blake's effort.. They all should chase like that.. Unlikely to get there but you have to try or you may look like a goose ala Beale v England..

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Simmons stopped trying. There is a GIF doing the rounds of it comparing the effort by both of them.

 

[Tomikin]

Simmons stopped trying. There is a GIF doing the rounds of it comparing the effort by both of them.

Can you post it here would love too see it.. He looked in slow no.. If Enever was were Simmons was he might have got him.

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[KOB1987]

The site is busted and I can't post the actual GIF but this link should take you there.

https://giphy.com/gifs/wallabies-l2...KbT3jJPCEVnMYqilB28NHfOPqkca3qaAxGfsyKCs0wRbw

 

[dru]

On Foley:

I'm not keen on a distributor at 10, but I'm starting to wonder that the pace of the modern game at international level simply requires your playmaker further out - if you want "expressive" rugby. I'm pretty calm these days with Foley chosen over Quade, wouldn't be my call, but there is more to this than meets the eye. Not politics either, but strategy.

On Beale:
So we take our playmaker out further, why not Quade? Because Cheika tried it and it didn't work. Ditto with Foley outside of Quade. Beale has been fine at 12. When we push him to 15, it's a different issue, yes it can work but it places a lot more risk on the plays as a talented opposition can push the issue further. Especially with a big bopper then moving 12. Really would have like to see Beale/Hunt sharing 12/15 more than we did. That's not Beale's issue. And Beale is surely a first pick in the team.

On Kerevi:
Brilliant player who could have had long term WB opportunities, may still do. But Foley at 10 is always going to require more than Kerevi at 12. Kerevi needs to push Kurindrani for 13, I think.

Cheika:
I can't maintain a positive view here. There is indeed progress, but it is a stulting, topsy turvey, and ugly progress. Lurching from one game to the next. More "promise of things to come" than producing quality in the present. Judge him on his record.

Barbarian, suggests Ireland is the litmus test. OK then. Too late imo for a new guy to have great order in approaching the RWC, but OK. In the mean-time we need to be testing alternatives.

In among irritating phrases is "you can't get rid of Cheika because there is no-one else". Which seems code for "there is no need to look".

There is. Otherwise the irritating phrase simply self-perpetuates.

 

[Dctarget]

We've seen Simmons have a semi-decent turn of pace before and at the end of that gif it seems like he's nursing an tender/injured leg, I'm not holding that try against him.

 

[RugbyReg]

We've seen Simmons have a semi-decent turn of pace before and at the end of that gif it seems like he's nursing an tender/injured leg, I'm not holding that try against him.

When I saw it happen I was prepared to say, gutsy effort considering he's clearly injured, and naturally assumed he'd come off and Lukhan Tui would come on. But he played out the match..

 

[Tomikin]

We've seen Simmons have a semi-decent turn of pace before and at the end of that gif it seems like he's nursing an tender/injured leg, I'm not holding that try against him.

He went on to play the full match...

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[barbarian]

. In the mean-time we need to be testing alternatives.

In among irritating phrases is "you can't get rid of Cheika because there is no-one else". Which seems code for "there is no need to look".

There is. Otherwise the irritating phrase simply self-perpetuates.

I agree totally - we need to be doing much more to blood young coaching prospects, and develop the coaches we have.

It's why we've been calling on the podcast for development coaches to go on the EOYT, much like we do with players. Just one idea but I think it would be a good step forward.

 

[TOCC]

Get rid of Nathan Grey, he should never have even placed in that role to start with, his performance at the Waratahs certainly didn’t warrant it..

Look at someone like Matt Taylor, bring him home.


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[wamberal]

I agree totally - we need to be doing much more to blood young coaching prospects, and develop the coaches we have.

It's why we've been calling on the podcast for development coaches to go on the EOYT, much like we do with players. Just one idea but I think it would be a good step forward.

Can you imagine the squawking from the usual claque who do not even think that development players should go on tour?

 

[RugbyReg]

Get rid of Nathan Grey, he should never have even placed in that role to start with, his performance at the Waratahs certainly didn’t warrant it..

Look at someone like Matt Taylor, bring him home.


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I wonder who Tattsy would prefer to be coaching at the moment. Maybe we should target him for post 2019.

 

[cyclopath]

Cheika:
I can't maintain a positive view here. There is indeed progress, but it is a stulting, topsy turvey, and ugly progress. Lurching from one game to the next. More "promise of things to come" than producing quality in the present. Judge him on his record.

Barbarian, suggests Ireland is the litmus test. OK then. Too late imo for a new guy to have great order in approaching the RWC, but OK. In the mean-time we need to be testing alternatives.

In among irritating phrases is "you can't get rid of Cheika because there is no-one else". Which seems code for "there is no need to look".

There is. Otherwise the irritating phrase simply self-perpetuates.

There is always someone. In principle I would not be averse to a change. Something needs to happen. I see a few issues. Timing is a big one. If you were an international coach, or had aspirations to that and coaching the Wallabies, there is a very narrow window now pre-RWC 2019. Next Tests are 7 months away or so, and for someone to have a decent run at the RWC (and let's face it, like it or not, it has become some sort of bell-wether for coach assessment) they'd probably want to be in place early next year. Can be done, but has to be done soon by a national body in disarray. I'm guessing they won't. In addition, can we imagine Kearns (yikes) binning his old Randwick mate as he walks in the office? No. Just a prediction, not a hope. Next issue is who. Realistically, there is not really anyone in Oz now who screams to be appointed. Yet. There are certainly some specialist coaches potentially available though - Stiles, Fisher for starters. Internationally, it's harder to say. I mentioned somewhere on another thread that I think that most rugby fans would be wary of another "foreign" coach after Deans, not that I am too bothered to be honest. Finally, the cost, as it would amount to 2 years salary to pay out Cheika's contract right now, unless he walked, which I doubt he will. It may be an irritating phrase, but it is a vexed issue. Sorry, what I meant was it's a massive clusterfuck!

 

[cyclopath]

I wonder who Tattsy would prefer to be coaching at the moment. Maybe we should target him for post 2019.

I agree, why would he want to be here? But it would be great to see him back here.