The Wallabies Thread

[Brumby Runner]

Who is suggesting it won't be one of those two?

If we are going down that route,lets start hypothesising about picking backrowers at 2, or 9's in the centres.

Roach for combination 2/7? Hooper to the centres. Actually, I wouldn't mind Dane Coles in the centres.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's relevant here because it is the toughest level to look good at and what we are talking about here.

My comments about Cooper and him being not dissimilar to Foley in that he performs best when he has a playmaking 12 outside him at test level are based on my observations of when he has played his best test rugby.

There seems to be this sentiment that Cooper has excelled without a play making 12 outside him but the evidence at test level is to the contrary.

BH, from memory I think Quade's best efforts at test level have been with Matt To'omua at 12. Do you consider Matt to be a playmaker when he plays at 12? I think he is more of the Pat McCabe ilk at 12 where his strength in direct running and defense were his main attributes.

 

[dru]

When has this happened at test level?

Straw man.

Foley requires a team design that caters for play making. We either run a big direct centres knowing that few holes will be created or you make up for it with another playmaker. Beale is the obvious choice though a healthy Hunt also is a possibility. This leaves Hodge compromised at 12 either through a back line without a lot of flair, or looked over as a starting 12.

 

[KOB1987]

BH, from memory I think Quade's best efforts at test level have been with Matt To'omua at 12. Do you consider Matt to be a playmaker when he plays at 12? I think he is more of the Pat McCabe ilk at 12 where his strength in direct running and defense were his main attributes.

To'omua is definitely a playmaker. He's a shit kicker in general play but he has a great read of the game both in attack and defence.

 

[fatprop]

Straw man.

No it isn't

Foley requires a team design that caters for play making. We either run a big direct centres knowing that few holes will be created or you make up for it with another playmaker. Beale is the obvious choice though a healthy Hunt also is a possibility. This leaves Hodge compromised at 12 either through a back line without a lot of flair, or looked over as a starting 12.

And what playmaker doesn't?

 

[Braveheart81]

Straw man.

Foley requires a team design that caters for play making. We either run a big direct centres knowing that few holes will be created or you make up for it with another playmaker. Beale is the obvious choice though a healthy Hunt also is a possibility. This leaves Hodge compromised at 12 either through a back line without a lot of flair, or looked over as a starting 12.

How is it a straw man argument?

The same attributes at 12 that best suit Foley also suit Cooper as has been shown over the course of his test career.

This premise that somehow Cooper operates well with two big ball running centres that provide us with both the most running ability and strongest defence and that when we select Foley we have to compromise is not backed up with any sort of evidence.

When Beale has played his best rugby at 12 (which has generally been for the Waratahs or in the UK) it has been because he runs hard and takes the line on. He has played there very little at test level apart from a couple of stints off the bench.

Clearly Hunt provides a far more physical presence in defence at 12, but both of them run hard at the line when they are playing good football. I think both are better footballers than Hodge at this point in time mostly because Hodge lacks the ball playing ability of either of them.

 

[Ruggo]

Beale doesn't run straight. he crabs into the space of his outside man. Let's not forget those chip kicks either.

 

[gel]

I don't know of a complete Aus player (and very few test players from any country for that matter)

There are some glaringly bad deficiencies in australian 10s. Foley has them in spades.

Other countries have players who seem to want to fix their issues.

 

[dru]

BH & FP

The straw is because what I was answering was what was the problem with Hodge. His problem is he doesn't fit a team with Foley as well as Beale or Hunt.

I don't have a problem with a team structure built around a key playef and agreed you should do the same with Quade. I have not been advocating Quade either. As you both seem to infer.

FWIW I don't recall well Gits etc outside QC (Quade Cooper) well. Maybe you are right. Also agree that the best 10-12 partnership promise was with To'omua. But disagree with your assessment that he is a playmaker. Like Foley, To'omua was a competant distributor.

Foley is the only option right now, probably for some time. His best 12 partnering is going to be Beale or Hunt. I hear what some say about MeKes and will watch for it.

Putting Hodge outside Foley is not impossible or even silly. But short of planned moves I'd expect very one dimensional attack. Especially with say Kuridrani at 13.

 

[TOCC]

Beale doesn't run straight. he crabs into the space of his outside man. Let's not forget those chip kicks either.

The "Rocky Elsom Effect" erases any past frailties

 

[Braveheart81]

The straw is because what I was answering was what was the problem with Hodge. His problem is he doesn't fit a team with Foley as well as Beale or Hunt.

I just don't think he's as good as the other options at this point. I don't think it has anything to do with who is playing 10.

He has neither a strong longer passing game nor a good offloading game.

He's an excellent player with huge potential but he is a bit limited at this point of his career as a test 12. He had a good EOYT last year but I don't think his current form is at that level.

I don't think Meakes is necessarily a better player but I think his current form is superior and he's more likely to bulldoze over the top of someone than Hodge is.

I'd say Hodge is a strong chance of making the 23 for the first test as a bench player because he can play a number of positions.

 

[dru]

I just don't think he's as good as the other options at this point. I don't think it has anything to do with who is playing 10.

He has neither a strong longer passing game nor a good offloading game.

He's an excellent player with huge potential but he is a bit limited at this point of his career as a test 12. He had a good EOYT last year but I don't think his current form is at that level.

I don't think Meakes is necessarily a better player but I think his current form is superior and he's more likely to bulldoze over the top of someone than Hodge is.

I'd say Hodge is a strong chance of making the 23 for the first test as a bench player because he can play a number of positions.

OK
Do this I understand. I guess my thoughts are different. We could be talking Horne or Karevi or Kuridrani. In my mind all compromise the backline and leave us one dimensional. Not because they aren't good at what they do, but because we needs must adjust to Foley.

Adjusting for a 10 is not a concern, but it does have implications. Whether those adjustments are for Foley or any other 10.

 

[Killer]

Not a proper search but......
I'm biased but from this I would choose Meakes

Hodge

Hunt

Kerevi

Meakes

More Meakes in the Force

 

[Killer]

more from the BM fan club

 

[Joe Blow]

Only 7 Brumbies included in the wider squad, all of which will remain after the final cull of course. I would have thought that Alcock, Banks and one or two others could have been included based on the teams performance.

 

[fatprop]

There are some glaringly bad deficiencies in australian 10s. Foley has them in spades.

Other countries have players who seem to want to fix their issues.

can you provide a couple of examples of players who have actually fixed these issues?

 

[gel]

can you provide a couple of examples of players who have actually fixed these issues?

Sure. Any international player that has managed to play for >30 or 40 tests.

Foley and QC (Quade Cooper) are *still* running around the park with the same frailties that were obvious when they first ran out.

Now, why do you and your other flower buddies believe that this forum should only be for the complete adulation of NSW players who are above any criticism and any other person from any other state is one to be sneered at or derided for transgressions imaginary or real? the meerest mention of any contentious issue with. NSW player brings out nothing but shut down comments from the likes of you.

Don't bother responding actually - the arrogance of these last couple of pages is answer enough.

 

[fatprop]

Sure. Any international player that has managed to play for >30 or 40 tests.

Foley and QC (Quade Cooper) are *still* running around the park with the same frailties that were obvious when they first ran out.

Now, why do you and your other flower buddies believe that this forum should only be for the complete adulation of NSW players who are above any criticism and any other person from any other state is one to be sneered at or derided for transgressions imaginary or real? the meerest mention of any contentious issue with. NSW player brings out nothing but shut down comments from the likes of you.

Don't bother responding actually - the arrogance of these last couple of pages is answer enough.

Mate you said, "Other countries have players who seem to want to fix their issues." I couldn't think of any who actually had and I ask for a couple of examples of test players who have actually fixed their issues; and you have a little tantrum

I would suggest they don't and at best they learn to live within their ability

 

[gel]

Mate you said, "Other countries have players who seem to want to fix their issues." I couldn't think of any who actually had and I ask for a couple of examples of test players who have actually fixed their issues; and you have a little tantrum

I would suggest they don't and at best they learn to live within their ability

I disagree wholeheartedly with your last statement..

Some might learn to live with it, but will generally be found out. Most don't, they work on whatever their weakness is and fix it through hard work. That is common amongst elite athletes, amateur athletes with a competitive spirit, professional workers, tradies, etc etc etc.

Other countries are getting better by looking at their deficiencies, fixing them and improving.

There is no evidence that the wallabies are fixing any of theirs because the same glaring deficiencies are exposed year after year.

 

[fatprop]

And still no examples, I will give you the only on I can think of, Nonu. But I would suggest he is one of the very very few